A text dump on ‘The Intolerant Left’
ROSA ASSAULTS A POLICE OFFICER
Clip reel — The case & our call for Revolution 2021
Interview With Cory Johnston, host of Mind of a Skeptical Leftist
Interview about State Persecution on Mind of A Skeptical Leftist
Channel Reintroduction: The Case & Our Call For Revolution
Clips from “The Rich Are Getting Ready, Are you?”
UK State Repression of Anarchists. Solidarity with Toby Shone
Introduction
The website that the content creator ‘The Intolerant Left’ used for 2 years or so to rally people to support him in getting the police, the courts & the government into dropping charges of CP possession was recently taken down, along with 2 related twitter accounts. I know the reason why, but I don’t know how much is fair to the victims to write about publicly. I'll just say for now, I am confident the dude did download CP.
This website archived texts related to this case under the topic tag ‘the criminal justice system’ in an effort to help one of the people involved have a paper trail of transcripts, so that they could be better able to make sense of the case by being able to remember what has been said and written about it in the past.
Now we’ve collected these texts and more into this research text dump with this short introduction.
There’s lots of bizarreness that could be written about, whether that’s the cult of martyrdom that was displayed, the machismo, the conspiracies, the demanding ‘thoughts and prayers solidarity’ and insulting anyone who held back out of skepticism, the lack of thorough questioning when a dude brings up a story about being sent to prison for trying to smuggle a kid across the border in the back of a van, the list goes on and on.
‘The Intolerant Left’ believes violent revolution is just around the corner:
Nov 11, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION @weareintolerant
Civil unrest is coming. 😌😊
Full video: The rich are getting ready, are you?
Here’s another person’s post that they boosted on Mastadon:
Nov 24, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION boosted
Kingslayer
@emptycrown@weareintolerant It’s good to stay connected, especially with the Twitter crackdowns. I’m sure my account’s bound to be closed for some bullshit reason soon after it comes back online, so the move here is something that if I didn’t do it now, by the time I would have it’d have been a lot harder to get the word around to other comrades.
Current forecast is showing signs that the provincial gov’s gonna really start fucking people over soon. Current actions on my part lean towards getting locals informed on how to do street-level first-aid, as well as gathering support against Danielle Smith (I live in Alberta, Canada, for those wondering). The future looks bleak here too, but if my time international has anything to say for my survival, it’s that I’m never going down without one hell of a fight. Furthermore, as long as I’m alive, you can expect I’ll be there supporting the people, inciting them against the government, breaking the conditioning of the capitalist propaganda.
Should all go “according to plan,” that is to say we become a liberated anarchist-occupied territory, we should have the resources to start expanding our efforts outwards. We should have a substantial air-navy, though the extent of how far we can fly really depends on what kinds of skywhales we’ve got (read: big, long-distance cargo aircraft). Hopefully it shouldn’t take more than a few years for us to make landfall in the UK, though if at all possible I can try getting a mobile unit to you sooner than that. I want to keep my promise of bringing justice to your cases, especially because I’ve seen the negativity and hostility of the bobbies first- and second-hand during my time in the UK.
For now, though, I guess all we can do is occupy the time we’ve got with revolutionary preparations. See you around.
Here’s a taster of some of the Jonestown-esque hot-housing that could be witnessed in various videos:
Ellis: If you make clocks for a living, you go out and you do it every day, and it’s what you do for a living, and it’s what you do. You, you. Are a clock. Maker right. If you are a builder and you go out and you make buildings, you are a builder. But if you go home and then make clocks for an hour of an evening and you find that settling. Then you are a hobbyist clock maker. Now if you take those two, I mean a majority of our life is spent researching, discussing shift, coming up with new ways, of looking at things, all sorts of stuff. And we like, although we don’t put out videos every day on what’s going on, on the news and all this sort of shit. We sit at home and we talk about it and we discuss it and we refer to it in later videos. And all of the content that comes up in our videos is shit that takes a long time to do, and we do it every day. All done so to say that we’re political hobbyists. We don’t do anything else, so I don’t think we’re hobbyists, you know? ...
My point with the de-legitimisation of protest is; we’re going to break the law. If you’re against this government and you wanna do anything at all about it, you’re going to have to break the law and you’re gonna have to be comfortable with the prospect of breaking the law. You could be arrested. You could be put in fucking prison, but at the end of the day... it’s like me and Rosa said, me and Rosa are going down in a hale of bullets. That’s the way it goes. But we’re prepared to do that. We’re prepared to spend fucking years in prison if necessary. If it gets the fucking message out. What’s important is not me as an individual. Or you as an individual. It’s about the cause, it’s about making a better world for my children, for my grandchildren, for all of us, you know? And yes, sacrifices have to be made and I am absolutely prepared to be part of that sacrifice. That’s not a problem I don’t have. I don’t have an issue with that.
Finally, here’s a long compilation of quotes on the conspiracy ‘The Intolerant Left’ asked everyone to buy into hook line and sinker:
Ellis “The Intolerant Left” and Rosa Langsdale. ...
On 22nd Dec 2021 the police came to our home and served a search warrant for “indecent images of children”. They spent approximately 5 hours searching all the devices in our home. After they were done they told us that the computer in the bedroom had nothing on it, as Rosa’s phone, my phone, the gaming PC in the living room and Rosa’s laptop had nothing on them. They then told us they were taking the PC and the laptop, the only devices we use in our anti-state propaganda. ...
We both categorically deny the allegations and we believed at the time it was either the state or local fascists’ retribution for antifascist works I’ve done by planting evidence, after all, I have messages threatening physical violence on myself, threats to inform on me to the police for my cannabis use and a casual threat that I didn’t necessarily have to have done whatever they were informing on me for on my social media from local fascists. I have also had death threats before, in my long history of anti-fascist and anti state works. ...
It makes sense that they did what they did; when Rosa and I met it was the catalyst for a true revolutionary non-anonymous media presence which soon became more than the sum of its parts. It did not take long before this woman who spoke gold with such eloquence on communist, socialist and anti-fascist views without the backing of the standard theory yet with the willingness to throw everything in and risk it all, even if only for reform, (Of course the absurdity of reformism is very clear to her now.) and me: an activist with decades of experience, a knowledge of anarchist theory and anti-capitalist history together became a danger to the powers that be and the status quo. Not yet a true threat, but there was a dangerous potential as per the new categorization of antistateism and anarchism. Even anti-capitalism is very high in the categorization of limiting protesters as proscribed by this government. SEE FOOTNOTES FOR DEETS. This puts us, alone in the UK non-anonymously, in the highest category, which is reasonable to suggest makes us the highest priority in that bracket. Basically, this had to be nipped in the bud. ...
You can see by looking at the timing of the actions by the state and the police that the initial raid timing was suspiciously close to us contacting and conversing with imprisoned underground anti-state activists, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. Given the information revealed by the cops during the interview, the raid was apparently 2 days after the initial crime was alleged to have happened, something our solicitor said was not normal in any way and he had never encountered it before. also, upon inspection of the warrant, we discovered THE WARRANT FOR THAT RAID WAS DATED 2 DAYS BEFORE THE CRIME IS ALLEGED TO HAVE TAKEN PLACE. …
[Rosa] was driven to attempt to take her life recently to stop the pressure from the police, an indication of the extent to which these allegations are affecting her. This is one of the reasons we think they have used these allegations: as an attempt to get Rosa to commit a murder-suicide. There is evidence in her medical history and artworks to show her hatred of abusers and fervent desire for a fair and equitable world, both things the state is desperately trying to use against us, we think with the intention of smearing the left. The effect on Rosa has been devastating and I fervently wish they were not so callous in their methods for her sake. We had come to terms with the fact the state would probably end us one way or another, “hail of bullets” was the term we used. This is something else. To predicate on someone’s issues in an attempt to get them to kill someone else and then themselves to solve a problem caused by the fascistic nature of the state (our actions are always reactionary to the current state of affairs), is wrong on every level. State-sanctioned and induced murder was their intent. ...
We will always refute their claims with everything we have because we are innocent of all allegations. I have spent my life fighting oppression and exploitation of every kind and being accused of something so antithetical to my nature has rocked both of us to our core.
My concerns are not so much for myself, but for Rosa, the leftist movement, and essentially the ability to protest the state. This should be rocking you to your core too, a comrade accused of something so heinous as to be capable of tarnishing the reputation of the left is not something to be taken lying down. It’s been done before. From the Washington Examiner:
“A man who led Black Lives Matter protests in New Hampshire last month has been indicted on child pornography charges, according to a new report.
Chris DeVries, 37, of Jackson, New Hampshire, led a protest on June 21 dubbed “Skate Away the Hate,” which encouraged participants to ride skateboards down a local highway to show support for the Black Lives Matter movement. ...
DeVries has been charged with six counts of possessing child sexual abuse images, one count of possession of psilocybin mushrooms, and one of falsifying physical evidence, local police said. The child pornography charges carry a sentence of up to 15 years in prison and a $4,000 fine. The drug offenses are punishable by up to seven years in prison.
Police warrants indicate DeVries was in possession of photos and other media that depicted young girls either in “lewd exhibition” of private parts or engaging in sexual activity, the outlet reported. A forensic examiner with Internet Crimes Against Children found more than 60 images of child sexual abuse, police said. ...
All we ask is that you help us by making this known. Reticence is not an option, if they can do this to us, they can do it to you.
Ellis “The Intolerant Left” and Rosa Langsdale.
With regards to the example case cited at the end there, DeVries ended up pleading guilty to two counts of first degree sexual abuse of a minor.
Primary Source Texts
Website
The Timeline So Far
Source: <https://web.archive.org/web/20230814220718/https://weareintolerant.com/>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20221203003256/https://weareintolerant.online/>
Authors: Rosanna Lilley & Ellis Langsdale
Date: 12/4/22
Source: weareintolerant.online
INTRODUCTION
No charges have been brought yet but Ellis (and maybe me too, I guess) is being smeared as a paedophile; framed for possession of indecent images of children. His kids and everyone who knows him trust him and he is the best man I have ever known, please stay with us.
We know this is uncomfortable for anyone and triggering for many, it is for me too I am a victim of many abusers including a pedophile, and this was a psyop that leveraged the public knowledge of that. (years of confessional art) but it’s not just that -this is trauma happening to both of us right now and we can’t beat this alone.
The only source of these lies is cops. That he is alive is proof that I trust him completely. Please keep reading, look at the timeline Ellis wrote next.
SEE “THE CASE AND OUR CALL FOR REVOLUTION VIDEO”
This was when Rosa and I became properly radicalised on video. Until this point the channel had been radical, but reformist. We were now looking with open eyes at our goals and aims: how to organise for a takedown of the capitalist system while overthrowing the false “democratic” systems to create a truly democratic socialist system free from the debt/wage slavery of modern life. They will not let us take the tools of their oppression to turn them into the tools of our liberation. This means riots on a scale not seen before, organized globally, with coinciding work-ins, throwing the bosses out, and making decisions based on consensus vote of the workers taking the profits as wages. Without destroying the vertical power structures induced by capitalist indoctrination climate change and the global poverty of material circumstances will exist until they’ve killed us all. This is only what we put on screen, some of our discussions would make your blood run cold were you a billionaire.
You may not agree with our politics to that extreme example, but the fact we are saying these things, treading on eggshells to not be directly charged with terror offenses while we say them on screen not trying to be anonymous in any way at all in an attempt to rally people into organization, as I say, eggshells means we aren’t technically breaking the law.
THE RAID
On 22nd Dec 2021 the police came to our home and served a search warrant for “indecent images of children”. They spent approximately 5 hours searching all the devices in our home. After they were done they told us that the computer in the bedroom had nothing on it, as Rosa’s phone, my phone, the gaming PC in the living room and Rosa’s laptop had nothing on them. They then told us they were taking the PC and the laptop, the only devices we use in our anti-state propaganda.
THE SUSPECTS
We both categorically deny the allegations and we believed at the time it was either the state or local fascists’ retribution for antifascist works I’ve done by planting evidence, after all, I have messages threatening physical violence on myself, threats to inform on me to the police for my cannabis use and a casual threat that I didn’t necessarily have to have done whatever they were informing on me for on my social media from local fascists. I have also had death threats before, in my long history of anti-fascist and anti state works.
We used my PC for editing and uploading and Rosa’s laptop for collecting and collating clips, text etc we’re using. The local network running in my home has always been open for ease of transfer of data from one device to another which would enable someone to access my PC with full read/write access on all but the drive with the operating system on. And all with nothing but my router password, something the small community that lives here, people coming to view the place when it was up for sale, any excuse really, I’m a socialist anarchist, of course, you can upload pictures of the quad bike you’re thinking of buying. (We live on a caravan site in a separate field to the main site with a large communal garage 20 feet away and have the only internet on this side of the site.)It is only now I realize how lax our OpSec was, to the point of being literally non-existent. Consequently, my suspicions were heavily weighed on the side of it being fash, although the thought that it was the state was always a possibility; Rosa however was fairly convinced it was the state from the start, except for one glorious week we thought it was local fash when we found the threats on my social media.
THE FIRST INTERVIEW
Late October 2022 we received a phone call from the local cops saying they wanted me in for an interview. While waiting the 10 months or so they took to get back to us, we called several times to find out what was going on. It was during one of these calls they said that no local cops took part in the raid, something which they must do under cop legislation. As you’ll see, every time we get new information from the cops it contradicts other parts of their accusations.
Because I’m a full time carer for my wife and comrade in arms Rosa, she came with me to the cop station. When we arrived there was no answer at the police station door which was locked and no lights were on. We waited for 20 minutes or so and then went back to the car to call our solicitor, whom we had not yet met, to find out what was going on. Rosa had taken her medication and was due her next dose in maybe 3 hours time at this point.
Eventually someone appeared from the depths of the cop station and let us in only to wait further until they came and separated us for my interview. They took me to talk to our solicitor and I told him I had no idea of what this was about. He told me they had found indecent images of children on the gaming PC. I told him I had no knowledge of these pictures and that the PC was used primarily for activist work and gaming, with social media anarchist shitposting in between. I also told him of the threats I have had from fascists and I told him of the anti-fascist counter protesting, riots, anti-state and anti-capitalist action I personally have done. I told him of a specific time in 2012 when I told the Chief Prosecutor for the International Criminal Court in Belgium on the phone that I wanted to bring charges against my government for various criminal acts at home and abroad including illegal rendition through Scotland, done in partnership with the US government, of which I had solid evidence. The Chief prosecutor told me were I to commit to these charges against the Tory coalition and to provide him with the evidence I had then an investigation would start and my life would be at risk, I should leave the country and claim asylum, preferably in a country with no extraditon treaty with the UK or US, I turned out a year later that this exact scottish rendition stopover was part of an investigation into the governemnt for just that which I was accusing them of. I told him this and more. I told my solicitor that these allegations were contrary to my nature and I had character witness of people whose children I had babysat for and that had sleepovers etc with my own children, my own trans son, Jake has given testimony as to how wrong this could possibly be given my nature and his experience. We then prepared a statement saying all of these things and I had a no comment interview.
My personal PTSD is triggered by police after many violent attacks on myself by them and the fact I know exactly how corrupt and dangerous the police are, which meant I could do something I may regret even by talking to them. Rosa has seen how I deal with them, class traitors, every one; lickspittles to the rich and guard dogs of capital that they are, as I had told them on our initial meeting in the foyer.
About 2/3 of the way through te interview they started to describe examples of child abuse which triggered a “What the fuck are you doing, using the exploitation of these children, if this “evidence” even exists? That is just continuing the exploitation of those kids for your own nefarious needs. Fuck you, get the fuck out now. I need a break to talk to my solicitor” response, at which point the 2 cops scurried away hurriedly, and I told my solicitor I just needed a break from hearing about these poor kids and the sheer frustration at not being able to burn these cops for using these children to stop Rosa and I speaking truth and agitating for anti-capitalist and anti-state action. They came back in and gave up, ending the interview shortly after.
ROSA ASSAULTS A POLICE OFFICER
When I came out of my interview I was informed Rosa was in a cell, charged with assault on an officer, awaiting an interview. I was told I could wait in the dark and cold in the foyer for her. At some point a cop came from the back to go outside and I asked her how was the mental and physical wellbeing of Rosa, I am her carer as well as her husband. She replied that Rosa was “safe”. I told her that this was statistically one of the most unsafe places she could be given our anarchist activism and the previous experiences of other anarchists in police custody,rambled about Toby Shone for a while and that I would not be satisfied until I had her home, where she is as safe as she could be, given the circumstances. The cop gave me a look and went and “spoke to the custody sergeant” (The cops are trained to ALWAYS lie), who had “told her she was fine”. They refused to let me speak to the desk sergeant or the duty nurse, who legally had to be there, at which point it was either get arrested for various anti-police actions including violence or leave the conversation and let her go about her way, which I felt was the best choice at the time.
At around 4:40pm I tried to attract the attention of someone as it was approaching 5pm, time for Rosa’s medication. I had the doser box in my pocket and as her husband and carer it my duty to ensure her medication is on time. I tried the bell on the front desk but it was disconnected so I started shouting and banging on the doors. Eventually someone opened the door, a pig in uniform, who said no, she couldn’t have her meds. When I got quite insistent she said I could give them to the desk sergeant, when I said I didn’t trust him because he’s a cop and cops always lie she told me he was on CCTV camera and our exchange would be on camera as evidence. The desk sergeant assured me Rosa would have her meds and I left the station to fetch our dogs, which had been at a friends for most of the day and needed feeding etc. Also, as I haven’t used my phone for years, the landline at home was going to be the only way to find out her state of wellbeing and when she would be released.
THREATS TO KILL
As I was feeding the dogs the phone rang and the person on the other end told me they were the Chief Inspector and that Rosa wanted to kill me, would I make a statement. I asked them what the expletive they’d done to my wife and What lies exactly had they told her. I said that I wanted her back in safe hands here. He replied telling me someone would ring me for a telephone statement. An hour later at about 1 in the morning the phone rang and I was told Rosa had made a threat to kill me and would I make a telephone statement. I made a statement saying the only circumstance where Rosa would kill me would be if they had somehow convinced her that her husband and comrade against them had done this, I told them that were this true the threat was absolutely credible and that I would do the same were I to think she had done this. Rosa would never believe a word a cop said and I’m coming now to get her, have her waiting for me.
When I got to the police station I did not have to wait long before they brought her out and she told me what exactly she had been through.
POLICE ALWAYS LIE
Needless to say they lied to me through omission before denying her mental health and pain management medication for 2 doses, not telling me I could go home and get the medication rucksack with all her meds in the original boxes so the nurse can go through the list and issue them to Rosa. The cops tried to get her sectioned after denying her meds. When the mental health nurses said she was just angry and upset, they charged and questioned her for a crime she did not commit, threats to kill, which carries a maximum 10 year sentence, using “CCTV” evidence which does not exist. All without her mental health medication. Here is an exerpt from her blog:
“Just as I claimed was always the aim of this bullshit investigation into Ellis was, the police did try to section me yesterday when I inevitably had bad PTSD outbursts at the police station because of the intentionally triggering nature of the situation that has been created by the police.
When the Mental Health professionals did not agree that this was appropriate, making my confinement by this means impossible, THEY ARRESTED ME.
No further action was taken on the charges, because they were bullshit lies, and I was released.
The charges? Threats to kill! They claimed that in a moment that I exclaimed that I wanted to kill my self (because the whole situation was so horrible) that I actually said I want to kill him. This lie about me seeks to establish the lie that, even for a moment, I believed their false allegations in order to unfairly weight their false and flimsy case against my husband.
They literally called my husband and told him I wanted to kill him, implying I no longer trusted him and now believed the cops lies! I accused them of trying to kill him by making him believe such a thing which obviously would be a suicide risk.
It was agony knowing he spent any time at all thinking they’d got me so triggered and twisted that I’d lost faith in him but he kept fighting to bring me home
The interview on the charge of threats to kill took 5 minutes with no lawyer, no further action was taken and I was finally released after almost 10 hours in custody.
Fuck the police.”
It has now been over 3 weeks that we have been waiting for both the solicitor to get back to us concerning the dates and times in his notes and for them to charge most likely me I’m sure.
SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR
The computer and hard drives in question showed nothing when tested here and then, oh look, all of a sudden there’s “something on them”, after being in the hands of who? Can you really trust the state and the police? Did they want to shut us up? Did they try to arrange the murder-suicide of the loudest non-anonymous voices calling for action against them? When they failed in that endeavor, were they, by trying to convince me that Rosa thought I was guilty, trying to get me to commit suicide and commit Rosa to live in an institution?
Although personally, my future looks bleak, my concerns are not for myself, they are for Rosa and all revolutionaries and anti-state activists, not just here in the UK, but across the world: my comrades. To be smeared with this, as we are smeared with every condemnable action perpetrated by anyone amongst our ranks, whether they are guilty or not, is unforgivable. Can you really trust the state and the police? Did they want to shut us up? Did they try to arrange the murder-suicide of the loudest non-anonymous voices calling for action against them? When they failed in that endeavour, were they, by trying to convince me that Rosa thought I was guilty, trying to get me to commit suicide and commit Rosa to life in an institution?
WHO ARE WE?
Let’s say I was an impulsive youth with a passion for anarchism and anti-state action. I have always committed to what I have considered the right action at the right time to fight injustice, capitalism and the state. This has often involved breaking the law, which I have served time for or failed to complete I am willing to talk about. I have butted heads with spin doctors and politicians in a vain attempt at reform myself until it dawned on me that there was no political solution to the problem with politics. I have had no doubts in my mind for at least the last 15 or so years that the powers that be have had me on more than one watch list and that my social media and internet activity has been watched by more than one acronym. (Yet another reason I would not compromise myself so easily as to that which I have allegations against me for.)
Rosa has had a very disrupted life, a victim of sexual abuse and disabled with EDS which affects every part of her life, she suffers with physical pain constantly. An activist for survivors of sexual abuse and disability initially, with the scope of her actions becoming wider she started making the call for socialism five years ago, over three of which have been on her own YouTube channel, breaking stories over a year before any mainstream media covered them.
All this can clearly be seen through her videos, poetry, and art, and how heavy the burden of her EDS combined with the hyperfocus of ADHD, without these allegations is. She was driven to attempt to take her life recently to stop the pressure from the police, an indication of the extent to which these allegations are affecting her. This is one of the reasons we think they have used these allegations: as an attempt to get Rosa to commit a murder-suicide. There is evidence in her medical history and artworks to show her hatred of abusers and fervent desire for a fair and equitable world, both things the state is desperately trying to use against us, we think with the intention of smearing the left. The effect on Rosa has been devastating and I fervently wish they were not so callous in their methods for her sake. We had come to terms with the fact the state would probably end us one way or another, “hail of bullets” was the term we used. This is something else. To predicate on someone’s issues in an attempt to get them to kill someone else and then themselves to solve a problem caused by the fascistic nature of the state (our actions are always reactionary to the current state of affairs), is wrong on every level. State-sanctioned and induced murder was their intent.
WHY THEY DID WHAT THEY DID
It makes sense that they did what they did; when Rosa and I met it was the catalyst for a true revolutionary non-anonymous media presence which soon became more than the sum of its parts. It did not take long before this woman who spoke gold with such eloquence on communist, socialist and anti-fascist views without the backing of the standard theory yet with the willingness to throw everything in and risk it all, even if only for reform, (Of course the absurdity of reformism is very clear to her now.) and me: an activist with decades of experience, a knowledge of anarchist theory and anti-capitalist history together became a danger to the powers that be and the status quo. Not yet a true threat, but there was a dangerous potential as per the new categorization of antistateism and anarchism. Even anti-capitalism is very high in the categorization of limiting protesters as proscribed by this government. SEE FOOTNOTES FOR DEETS. This puts us, alone in the UK non-anonymously, in the highest category, which is reasonable to suggest makes us the highest priority in that bracket. Basically, this had to be nipped in the bud.
MORE SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR
You can see by looking at the timing of the actions by the state and the police that the initial raid timing was suspiciously close to us contacting and conversing with imprisoned underground anti-state activists, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. Given the information revealed by the cops during the interview, the raid was apparently 2 days after the initial crime was alleged to have happened, something our solicitor said was not normal in any way and he had never encountered it before. also, upon inspection of the warrant, we discovered THE WARRANT FOR THAT RAID WAS DATED 2 DAYS BEFORE THE CRIME IS ALLEGED TO HAVE TAKEN PLACE.
STATEMENT
We will always refute their claims with everything we have because we are innocent of all allegations. I have spent my life fighting oppression and exploitation of every kind and being accused of something so antithetical to my nature has rocked both of us to our core.
My concerns are not so much for myself, but for Rosa, the leftist movement, and essentially the ability to protest the state. This should be rocking you to your core too, a comrade accused of something so heinous as to be capable of tarnishing the reputation of the left is not something to be taken lying down. It’s been done before. From the Washington Examiner:
“A man who led Black Lives Matter protests in New Hampshire last month has been indicted on child pornography charges, according to a new report.
Chris DeVries, 37, of Jackson, New Hampshire, led a protest on June 21 dubbed “Skate Away the Hate,” which encouraged participants to ride skateboards down a local highway to show support for the Black Lives Matter movement.
“If we divest funds from police and prison systems, we all benefit,” DeVries said during the event, according to the Conway Daily Sun. “Those funds can go to local communities and social services.”
DeVries has been charged with six counts of possessing child sexual abuse images, one count of possession of psilocybin mushrooms, and one of falsifying physical evidence, local police said. The child pornography charges carry a sentence of up to 15 years in prison and a $4,000 fine. The drug offenses are punishable by up to seven years in prison.
Jackson Police Chief Chris Perley told the newspaper on Sunday he could not comment on the case, which remains active.
“But I can say that generally speaking, people should be very cautious about listening to voices suggesting defunding of the police because their motives are not always in the best interest of society,” Perley said.
Police warrants indicate DeVries was in possession of photos and other media that depicted young girls either in “lewd exhibition” of private parts or engaging in sexual activity, the outlet reported. A forensic examiner with Internet Crimes Against Children found more than 60 images of child sexual abuse, police said.
This is by far not the only case, the Met have recently found, after a chief constable brought the subject of police culture up, that that officer just so happens to have a historical allegation. This seems to be par for the course, cops fitting people, even other cops, up for sex crimes. (See Gurpal Virdi)
All we ask is that you help us by making this known. Reticence is not an option, if they can do this to us, they can do it to you.
Ellis “The Intolerant Left” and Rosa Langsdale.
YouTube
<web.archive.org/web/20230816164057/https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCltLuhuxtZwfuT4p5i8uFig>
YouTube About Page
Source: <web.archive.org/web/20230623050231/https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCltLuhuxtZwfuT4p5i8uFig/about>
Rosa & The Intolerant Left
@RosaTheIntolerantLeft
316 subscribers
156 videos
Description
“If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized on or destroyed by the intolerant.” — Karl Popper
We do radical political comentary and unironic calls for revolution.
Downloadable videos
| Channel Reintroduction: The Case & Our Call For Revolution — Part1 | Download | View the screen capture |
| Channel Reintroduction: The Case & Our Call For Revolution — Part 2 | Download | View the screen capture |
| UK State Repression of Anarchists. Solidarity with Toby Shone | Download | View the screen capture |
| Death to computers | Download | View the screen capture |
| Let’s Talk About The Word “Offshoring”, The Inhumanity of The Idea Goes Without Saying | Download | View the screen capture |
| Migrant & Refugee Emergency: Time to choose which side of history we want to be on | Download | View the screen capture |
| Overseas Operations Bill -Sue me, Johnny Mercer MP. (Part 1 & 2) | Download | View the screen capture |
| A poem for Farage: Truth Is Divisive. | Download | View the screen capture |
| Clips from “The Rich Are Getting Ready, Are you?” | Download | View the screen capture |
| #GeneralStrike Clipreel | Download | View the screen capture |
| #FashCheck #Shorts Why So Many Asylum Seekers Are “Grown Ass Men” | Download | View the screen capture |
| Revolutionary Action & Strategy — Spoken Word | Download | View the screen capture |
| Left Unity — There is no Labour Party | Download | View the screen capture |
| Bristol riot trials update | Download | View the screen capture |
| The Surprisingly Unscathed Tongues of Politicians | Download | View the screen capture |
| Interview With Cory Johnston, host of Mind of a Skeptical Leftist | Download | View the screen capture |
| Interviewed about State Persecution on Mind of A Skeptical Leftist | Download | View the screen capture |
Clip reel — The case & our call for Revolution 2021
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Interview With Cory Johnston, host of Mind of a Skeptical Leftist
Participants: Cory Johnston, Rosanna Lilley, Ellis Langsdale
Date: Sep 29, 2022
Source: <web.archive.org/web/2oe_/http://wayback-fakeurl.archive.org/yt/U6697Q09O_4>
CORY: We go out to the podcast where I talk to a variety of people to spread critical thinking, progressive politics, and left wing philosophy. And today I’m joined. By Rosand Ellis yeah, so I guess a good place to start is like who are you guys?
ELLIS: I’ve been politically active for about. I don’t wanna give away my age. I was in London at the riots in 80s.
CORY: OK wow.
ELLIS: Yeah, against Thatcher I took part in the poll tax riot. I was also involved with housing action movements, squatting houses, putting furniture in them, setting up electricity, gas, all that sort of stuff. Put it on now.
ELLIS: And then there was anarchist bookshop on the Old Kent Rd in London. Where we dropped the keys to the house off. Once we put locks on it.
CORY: OK.
ELLIS: And then if we find homeless people, we go look. You know if you go to the bookshop, they’ll house you and they go in there and tell them that they’re homeless and they get a set of keys to a flat that’s got everything in it and everything set up already for them you. Know there was one of those in I did one of those in Bristol. Oh yeah.
ELLIS: Well, a few years later, yeah, I also took part in the Saint Paul’s riots in Bristol Police racist police brutality. That was about where they were regularly coming down to a primarily black area called Saint Paul’s where. OK.
ELLIS: I was living. The police were just coming down and basically cracking down on everything and everyone and every now and again it would kick off against the. Police and there was a couple of times in the 80s when it got quite big and it was national news and all. The rest of it, . Yeah, then then I went on to the illegal rave and free party scene. I did quite a lot on that on an electrician by trade and I did lighting. For illegal rapes for quite a long time, yeah it’s good. It’s a good atmosphere and it’s a good group of people. You know what I? Meand. It’s like everybody throws everything in for the benefit of everybody. It’s very much anarchistic.
CORY: Right, yeah?
ELLIS: But ? That’s awesome, yeah, yeah. But yeah, like I say, I’ve been politically active for a long. Time I had a motorbike accident about 20 years ago now. And I’m registered as disabled.
CORY: OK.
ELLIS: So most of my political action now is online. We do the YouTube channel that we have and yeah, I mean most of it is radicalizing younger people to action. You know?
CORY: Yeah, which is pretty vital right now, it’s with.
ELLIS: Oh absolutely, absolutely. I meanother one I think, is it. It’s important to try and form communities where you live, yeah? Like for example, we live on a static caravan site with about 20 caravans on it. Yeah, and there’s about I don’t know. 4045 people living there.
CORY: OK.
ELLIS: Yeah, we’ve played.
ROSA: Actually about anarchism, nobody minds.
ELLIS: And yeah, I mean. But yeah, it everybody it is very much like living on anarchist commune. I’m an electrician. We have a plumber. We have, like we have builders. We have people that can do all sorts of things mechanics. All of this yeah, and we’ve got a big shed with a pet in it for vehicle for vehicle repairs and stuff, and everything’s done on site and everybody knows each other. Everybody does things as favours for each other and it’s all very much. About her, sort of like what I mean, I’ll, I’ll give you an eighth of weed if you can sort out. The exhaust on my car sort of thing, ? It works, it really works. And you would kick the. ******* landlords off.
ELLIS: And when I moved there, there was a problem with heroin addiction site and people coming on site and stealing stuff, yeah? I was very much in the attitude where. This site has to become a family. We can’t be individual units on this site, yeah. And eventually. The two guys that were that were heroin addicts on site that were primarily causing a lot of the trouble. They were persuaded to move on to a different site down the road and. Ohh there was a there was three guys came on site with a with a baseball bat to do to rob people. Ohh geez and they came and knocked on my door. I beat down on them until they ran away and then after that we had the police on site. Every three days for about 3 weeks and they were just parking in the middle of the site. Yeah, in the van. Every time they were there I was going out there going what? You doing mate **** *** get out. Of here yeah. And eventually I went out there with my phone I took, took a photo of the van with the number plate and then went up to the guy and I said, right, this private property. What you do? Right now and he says this community policing. I said this private property. The community that you serve is in town 4 miles down the road.
CORY: Right?
ELLIS: **** *** down there and serve the community because you’re doing nothing here but causing trouble. And as it’s private land I’ve spoken to everyone on site, I am the representative of the Residents Association that is telling you. Right now, **** ***. Go away, don’t. Come back, yeah. Yeah, just.
ELLIS: And they, they’ve gone. And they went away. And they’ve. Never been back since that. Was about three or four years ago, .
ROSA: Just just to say that’s certainly not your only interaction with police, which is exactly why? Why they, read it, because basically I saw the YouTube channel before being fully radicalized. And self-described socialist or.
ELLIS: Oh no, no no. They don’t like you.
ROSA: Let alone anarchist and,, once I when I do things I really do run away with a. Redacted, throwing anarchist, and I think that I was already talking in a manner that clearly made made it very clear that I felt I had little to lose and was prepared to make a real a bit chaos and so I think that. Working with somebody who knows some interesting things, like other stuff like EMP devices, you can tell you how to. Build some and take out the Commons for a whole set of riot cops or building.
ELLIS: The idea is if you got a tennis. Ball then flip. You know the idea.
ELLIS: It open and.
ROSA: Of somebody like me working with somebody like him.
ELLIS: You can look up.
ROSA: I think basically gave him the shifts and so they paid a visit because I just. He was just.
ELLIS: I mean the other one is I’m well known to the local police around there, but being a bit belligerent. I know you.
ELLIS: I, I mean they throw they throw.
ROSA: You have you. Have you ever seen somebody call a Paris call a landlord a parasite to their face? Yeah, it’s the sexiest thing in the world.
ELLIS: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I tell the police to their face that they are the guard dogs and licks petals. Of the rich. And I’m just there for you to persecute. That’s that’s the only reason I exist in your eyes. You know what I mean? So if you go town mate, yeah.
ROSA: I said I got into politics late right? It’s kind of a weird statement, but like in some ways because. Was like since I was a teenager I’ve been essentially an advocate for a for people who’ve been through **** like myself. You know, I like I was. I used to be a visual artist. I say used to be which is sad phrase but my disability is. Slowly got to the point where, like I can’t even write that much anymore. My hands are pretty ******. Right?
ROSA: I’ve got something called airless danlos syndrome. Which is like bones aren’t connected together properly by like the ligaments are all constructed a bit wrong, so nothing holds together quite right. You’re always in pain. You dislocate subluxate. Things and I. OK. OK.
ROSA: I have a long history of this help them so I pretty much woke up from like a living coma of mental illness. And like I say, this somebody with ongoing problems like it that was that ship was a whole different level and but I was always doing. Activism essentially in my very confined frame of reference of being of being a person, very consumed by experiences of traumand a lot of these inform some of my political views. One of my earliest positions was. Schools shouldn’t be private. You know, I went to a. Private school and I went. I was so aware at the very ******* time. That the reputation for. The school was reveal. And that the son of thead of department who lived on the school ******* grounds abusing somebody would be embarrassing and a risk to the school fees of other students who might pull out. And so I watched my whole school in the in service of profit. Enable this for years. Ultimately, cover it up. You know. I mean nothing ever ******* came of. It. Essentially only ended because. I left school. And it completely ******* out. So obviously I went to private school. I grew up with a fairly. You know, with a middle class family. I mean, I, this now is not the first time I’ve been very, very distant like, as a student who couldn’t work, I think being student is quite interesting to you. Wait experience.
ROSA: For people in terms of the. Of consciousness because. Particularly now most people are pretty skinny, and particularly if you if you can’t work. But,, yeah, but you?
ELLIS: Know no.
ROSA: But deprivation wasn’t like an alien concept to me, like we had. It was a very strange school is sponsored by breweries like as in alcohol.
CORY: OK.
ROSA: We had the Brick Vic Theatre and the Smirnoff Dining room were very strange, so people whose parents owned pubs got to go for like cheaper and people whose parents were in the army so and so I.
CORY: Oh jeez.
ROSA: You know, associated with working class people in as much as I associate with anyone really at school, and I’ve always been a bit of a loner. So when I do go out or when I used to go out, it was always on my own and any time I see a homeless person, I’d ask if. They want some company because. It’s ******* lonely. I mean, like I’ve had a few close homeless friends when I’ve lived in London where I’ve, put them up and cold nights and ****. And, I’ve heard how *******, alienating and lonely and dismissive? I mean, I, I sat with a man after I saw just the most. Awful thing of him. Asking somebody very politely if they had any change and the man doesn’t even acknowledge him at all. Not a flicker in his eye puts his hand up in front of the man. ‘s face and just walks past him and.
CORY: Just like he doesn’t exist.
ROSA: Yeah, and it was so my oh, it was so angry. And yeah, we sat for a while. But anyway. I’m thinking about. Like one of the first times I did that. And I had friends at Windsor boys and girls school. Well, no, not. Really, at Windsor Girls School, but Windsor Boys School, which is a weird place because you got Winter Boys school state school and then just like 10 miles you got ******* eaten. You know which is where? All of our prime ministers come from.
CORY: Oh, Gee.
ROSA: They go through that ******* school. They got like a plaque on the wall of all the past. Students, alumni or whatever you call it who have become Prime Minister and these kids. These overindulged kids grow up and see that like this what you can be in this environment. It’s so gross.
ELLIS: I believe our last cabinet I, I believe that. 9 of 12 of them went to Eaton Private School and six of them were in the same.
CORY: OK.
ELLIS: Yeah wow, yeah so yeah.
ROSA: So I’ve sat multiple times with unhoused people opposite and ****** ******* Castle Windsor Castle. And just marvel at the insanity of it.
CORY: Just the dichotomy of it like the.
ROSA: Absolutely and discussed yeah and every time I, I could conclude nothing else other than it would be just to seize it for them. And I used to talk to people about this like and I genuinely think come the revolution, you will find that our house people are more than ******* ready. They’ve been ready for a long time. Like It’s about critical mass and there are people. Like Ella. To have been held the revolution in the hospital of ******* long time and it we when we succeed it won’t because of the people who newly felt the feeling and pushed us over the edge. It will because of every single person who ultimately made-up that critical mass to put things.
CORY: Right?
ELLIS: Everybody owes a part to play in the revolution, whichever side they On the only thing I have to do is choose the side. I mean, even if all it’s like me now. Yeah, I don’t go out to protest, I don’t. I don’t go and throw ******* fire bombs at cops anymore. Do what? I mean, I sit, I sit on ******* Facebook and try to radicalize boomers and the youth.
CORY: Right?
ELLIS: You know, and I’ll it. It’s that’s all I can do that’s all I can do. But as long as I can radicalize people and I see people being radicalized, that’s what Matt.
CORY: Right?
ELLIS: That’s that’s what matters. That is the contribution that I make at the moment, .
CORY: That’s fine.
ELLIS: And yeah, everybody has a role to play. You know it, even if all it is throwing down ******* dank memes, yeah.
ROSA: I mean it, It’s incredibly. I am continually frustrated by the limitations of the things that I that I can do. Like I did used to really like going and speaking at protests, which I didn’t do that often. And I something I found the most frustrating is like even though I was so clearly pushing myself very hard to be there like I would be sort of staggering on my crutches, even though it was clearly pushing hard to be there. Which obviously means. I would like to be there more, but I just can’t. You know nobody’s on. The street or doing any of the parts. Of direct action that I can’t engage in want to hear from from me. Any strategic advice? Disabled people have more reason than many to hate the capitalist system more time than most. To dedicate to informing themselves, raising their consciousness, and engaging in the thinking that. Must come with any action .
ELLIS: I mean, the other one is the other one is I’m one of the three founder members of Aberystwyth Antifa. And it’s not just I mean I sort of like, say oh, my role is throwing down memes, yeah, or whatever. There are real consequences to your actions online, right? And like.
ROSA: That constantly oscillates between like I’m a revolutionary and. I’m a **** poster, so .
ELLIS: Yeah, yeah, there’s. There’s a rock down the road on the coast yeah about 8 miles away. Yeah, and years ago in the 1960s the English government decided. That they were gonna flood a valley in Wales, which had a village in it called Druelle, right? And there’s a rock. On the coast that’s painted red with white writing on it that says Drew Drew Erin, which means remember Drew Erin. Yeah, because it was part of the Welsh people had no choice. The people in that village forcibly moved out and that Valley was flooded by the English government and then the Welsh people have no say in it whatsoever and it’s counted as a. It’s famous. It is world famous.
ROSA: Yeah, in terms of like a displacement of population for profit. Yeah, it’s like gentrification steroids mixed with extraction. It’s awful and.
CORY: Yeah, right? It’s but at the.
ELLIS: End of the day that rock is quite important to the Welsh people. The local Welsh people. Because it means something to them. The Welsh language was made illegal for 200 years.
CORY: Right?
ELLIS: By the English, yeah, the oppression of the English against the Welsh has it’s gone on for over 600 years, yeah, and it’s a strong deep feeling within the Welsh people, right? And someone. Decided to paint a black swastikand a black sun.
CORY: On the rock.
ELLIS: The rock Yeah, yeah, two years ago. And I found out who it was. I found the three guys that were involved. And the guy that actually did it, it was his idea. He was the one that with the paintbrush and his aunt he was the one that. Painted it on. I contacted his boss and said look mate sent him a photo on like emailed him, sent him an attachment with the photo of the rock. And I said this what one of your employees has done. And I don’t think that you should be employing him and he got the sack right? Yeah, and I had.
ROSA: No, I guess they’re saying that there can be real world material from. I meanything you understand, directed materialism should understand that things like online activity can have material results in the real world and that there’s a relationship between the two.
ELLIS: So even if you, even if you can’t get out there and throw bombs. Yeah, yeah. Just because you can’t get out the door doesn’t mean you can’t actually. Create and do something what I mean.
CORY: Yeah, yeah for sure.
ELLIS: I had a lot of come back from local fascists with that though my personal Facebook profile for about a year. Of course.
ELLIS: Anytime I posted anything it would get reported. Ohh, I at one point I had a three day ban a one day. Ban A7 day band a month ban all running at the same. Time no, jeez. But yeah, yeah that’s eased off an awful lot. Now, though I haven’t been banned for quite a long time, but I have been sort of trying to tame what I’ve put on there a bit, .
ROSA: It’s just.
ELLIS: No direct threats of violence to everyone. Not that.
CORY: Yeah, they don’t like that. I mean the.
ROSA: Police may have come here under a false pretext, but they did legitimately find some illegal things and just like noted it in their brains and left, so I mean, if they want to they can. There’s a guy at the moment he was meant to be released from prison like 2 weeks ago. His name’s Toby shone and he was working with 325. No state they. They seized the service and the lingual operation to dream, he was the only person presently. It was an. National effort now. Interestingly, the state logic of operation of dream is that anarchism is inherently terroristic political ideology.
CORY: Of course of. Course if you’ve got.
ROSA: Naturally is that’s a reasonable, kind of framework and no justification provided. I’ve read I’ve read the outline. And so they tried to bring a terror based case against him. They failed, and so instead they literally banged about for four ******* years for personal possession of some niche psychedelics that helped him with his cancer. And, I mean. Nobody gets locked up for four years for personal possession of anything for just no reason, . And it’s clear that they just they know that they shut the bed. They tried to put him in prison. They tried to attach a special surveillance order with all sorts of seriously politically repressive measures. It would have required him essentially to inform on all of his. Comrades, which lives collectively with it, would have made collective living impossible for him without compromising the security of everybody around him. Yeah, yeah.
ROSA: And they that had to be challenged. Court, and so there his defence. Defeated that, but they’ve just extended his stay in prison to December and parole, which is can add conditions like apparently. Without any sort of legal challenge until the day you find out, and by the time it happens he may well have broken those ******* conditions to be back in prison., they’re attaching advice, advice from the counterterror agencies on his parole even though he’s not in for terrorist offences now.
ELLIS: That he’s in for personal possession of drugs.
ROSA: So essentially, you’re an access that.
CORY: Right, so how does that have? Anything to do with terrorism?
ROSA: You has a bit of. Yeah, yeah.
ROSA: Percy and you go to prison, but you will won’t renounce your anarchism. You’ll never see the light of day again some. I mean, that’s basically the scenario that they’re pointing at. This president stands. I don’t even know if it.
ELLIS: It’s wing officer.
ROSA: Is a precedent I mean.
ELLIS: It’s wing officer told him that he was gonna kill him and blame. It on another prisoner. No juice, yeah.
ROSA: Yeah, he was being. I mean this a man who I think is a self confessed fascist. Certainly if you can make it a fair, fair assessment of as a fascist.
ELLIS: That’s the Esso of the prison of the wing. Office is wing officer for the wing that he’s on.
ROSA: Yeah, he’s threatened to make false intelligence reports to compromise his release and did it.
ELLIS: I’m done, sorry, yeah.
ROSA: It abuses the Muslim prisoners and Toby for his Irish descent. Mocking events like Bloody Sunday, which is obviously incredibly cruel and an unresolved injustice in our country. Where there’s still a lot of legislative efforts to. I like chocolate ice cream. Ohh my goodness.
CORY: I’m gonna take you upstairs. OK, OK we can have ice cream. I’m sorry I will be right. Back did you wanna see the puppy?
ELLIS: Yeah, no problem. Man, no problem. We’ll still be here. Oh wait, you wanted?
CORY: See the puppy. Puppy dog OK, let’s go get ice cream, kids don’t. Care what you’re doing.
ELLIS: Oh absolutely yeah, yeah.
ROSA: We’ve been trying to kind of figure out what we’re going to come back and talk about, and the plan is to talk about sort of the wave of direct action in the UK, but not just, around the world because of my earliest realizations about one of the points. On which there can be no unity. You know, I I’m interested in discussions of left unity like but no unity can be blind because that’s madness. That’s literally baseless. So one of the things I noticed in Extinction Rebellion particularly. One of their spokespeople, Rupert Reed, was this a contingent of the environmentalist movement that is interested in living on thisland like? A lifeboat and. Kind of OK with other people dying. In fact there are some of them who. Right?
ROSA: Think that. Is good and will redress balance to nature. There’s some real issues there, I. Mean the. People who are the most vulnerable, if we’re going to assign blame? Are the least. Responsible in many instances and the fact that they don’t have the resilience to deal with the increased risk is again due to our actions in the Imperial Court. And so what’s happened in. Pakistan, ? For us it’s about saving everyone you. Know it’s. More about preventing genocide than avoiding extinction, because if we don’t stop. This if we. If we survive on a lifeboat, see the blood of blameless people. I don’t think we deserve much other than extinction, and the I’ve said before that the first island to go underwater, leaving as its only trace, the floating corpses of its inhabitants, which is literally what we’re on course to do. Yeah, yeah.
ROSA: There are no ******* plans. For relocation of these people upon this event, no ******* plans happening. And all these environmentalists say we’re not gonna stop 2%. OK, so where thell are you asking for these plans in this eventuality? Because that will result. I mean, the reason actually 2.2% is was changed for this reason because it became 1.5 precisely because and the nations were like guys will be underwater beyond them and ? We like literally an international body agreed to something initially that would have killed these people and they had to bring it up and like address it. And you still got people saying, well, we’re. Not gonna stop that. And it’s like. So what are you saying is gonna happen to these people? Because I just I don’t feel anything about nationhood. Personally, I never have I, I just don’t. I really don’t. I think it’s very weird. The conversations of like mostly just English people talking about being upset about. Wales becoming independent or Scotland, it’s just like. But I would be more comfortable in my relationship to another person if there was some fairness in that. In the relationship of the power structures that govern our lives. You know it is a fundamentally undemocratic system. Wales literally has no constitutional mode of exit. You know, I mean, Scotland. Highly debated, but at least there is some legal literature that underpins it well. Right?
ROSA: It’s got nothing. Wells had nothing on entry and obviously agreements between kings and bucking rulers. Not exactly. It can’t really be claimed to be consent of the people. Sunday so. So It’s turned into an entirely colonial relationship. Even though the empire itself was a precondition for British colonialism to be able to control your entire island, landmass was extremely advantageous in empire and. And here’s the thing. About empire geography people. Is the only reason that the countries that are safer from climate collapse that have reaped the benefit of empire and globalization is just geography sheer chance of where we land on the map Europe is a strip across one band of. Of themisphere, there’s not big climactic changes. You can move your armies, move your crops far easier than a force in Africa could go from above the equator over the top and down to the bottom of the Horn of Africa. You know It’s just a different prospect. It’s not because. As Europeans were more ingenious. It was just advantageous location and the other thing is, the human movement is the only *** **** reason any of us are in any of the nations. In today and. Those nations are artificial. Human movement is entirely natural. It’s in fact the only reason we’re here in these nations to have these concepts of nationhood. So it seems. Just absurd to me to. Hold as sacrosanct something that. Is illogical, unnatural and harmful over something that is?
ELLIS: No bones.
ROSA: Inevitable and it’s like when I characterize this as a genocide. It’s like I’ve just written a not for the first time. A poem citing a definition of genocide and explaining why something that people don’t think of as genocide is in. Genocide, I’ve done this before, both in both cases are very sound because to deliberately inflict upon the group conditions of life calculated to bring about physical destruction in whole or part deliberate. The calculations were made long time ago and with them tons and tons of promises like, I mean, promises that we still talk about today about resilience funds and what essentially amounts today’s discussions of climate reparations. Promises were made in anticipation for their need. And they have never been fulfilled. Billions and billions. What would amount now to trillions and like? And what matters is that they knew what was coming and they didn’t change course. What matters is they can see is like ******* here and they are doing nothing to change. Course that is a choice that is a deliberate choice and the consequences are known so. If you are somebody who believes that inaction is not morally neutral, that that as we all think we agree, that all the evil needs is for good men to do nothing. Well then you. Are responsible for doing nothing and letting evil things or evil people do bad things, and so. When I see. The victims of the Melia massacre in Spain, after Spain takes in like 100,000 Ukrainian refugees. And I’m glad that they were given security. That is not, . Obviously, the point I’m making here point of making is that they shot down about 40 people. And killed them in suppressing the passage of just 200 Africans from the Morocco border.
CORY: Right?
ROSA: And I mean, I don’t know how many people. Died eventually because it. Was just a pile of injured people and all I feel is that this war and I’m on their ******* side. Yeah, what we’re saying is that we have to fight at a pace that actually is commensurate with the scale of the challenge faced. And if you are concerned in for the threats faced by the most vulnerable people, that means blocking. Now that means yesterday that means as soon as we get the chance, any opening. As what it means?
ROSA: And so that’s the thing that I think. Would be what radicalized as some other people and into a readiness for action, so it. It’s that confrontation. I mean there it was a. Pretty standard documentary about. You know the alt right? I think it’s called age of rage. The alt right? By VC
ROSA: But it was just. It was the only one that pulled together very well the issue of migration climate induced. Operation and the response. The question that was going to be asked which is sanctuary or genocide and the fact that some people have already got that answer in them. They know what that answer is, and so I became convinced of the necessity of confronting, as has always been. My approach with the kind of obviously I did around my own experiences was confronting people with brutal ******* realities and trying to get people to face the issue sooner rather than later. You know, I, I don’t want people to make this. It’s only when things get really scary and self preservation is an even stronger motive. So it felt like a conversation I have now, but. You know everything I see tells me that the answers are I already have for that conversation need to be acted on now and then the hope is to bring other people. You I’ve done a lot. Of reading about climate induced migration. And one book I would recommend like as two OK two. Two books I’d recommend to people like above. All others is Empire of Borders and also tropics of chaos Christian Parenti and the Empire of orders is Todd Miller or something and. It also talks about the role of violence in the world and how conflict over scarcity. Somebody was talking about water wars earlier. People were already fighting, where wells are drying up and groups or tribes are being pushed closer together by having to share a well. That they previously didn’t need to you. You’ve got groups coming into contact and conflict with scarcity, which is a false scarcity. Of course we have the capacity. To feed everybody. It’s just not ******* profitable to. The thing is. Is that when you understand what the stakes are and you understand that you’re not making that genocidal choice within an accurate? Range of. Missions, but rather you’re constantly being told that tons of things aren’t possible. If those things. Are possible then? What we’re doing.
ROSA: Is ******* reprehensible and I truly believe those things are possible and so I can’t forgive the inaction, yeah?
CORY: That’s it makes me think of. In Canada we talk about like in order to stay like, and I don’t really buy in the whole nation of Canada thing like it’s kind of trash to me anyway, but people have like done this work to figure out like we need to stay economically viable. Canada needs a population. Of 100 million by the year 2100. But we don’t have enough in like incoming immigrants to do that. Yeah, and so part of me thinks that. Like the neoliberal state, is thinking like OK? Well, once climate change makes certain places uninhabitable, those people will have to come here and people will be more like. I mean, maybe a little bit of a. Conspiracy theory.
ROSA: I think if you. Read empire reporters. What you’ll see is a long, long worked on construction of a. A system in, in anticipation for climate change and its influence on migration, and this proliferation of borders, funded by the US so that the US border was the last line of defence, not the first. Right?
ROSA: The idea being that you make every other border as hard as *******. Nobody can get to you because they’re too busy. Back there and they’ve let all sorts of human rights abuses occur. There of course, trained in the horrible way, of course, and it certainly seems like. You know, I mean, the reason people reject the idea of dealing with an aging population by taking immigrants as racism. Maybe the reason why they are more concerned with constructing these barriers to these people is racism within the, those in power and capital . I mean it, it is hard to understand. Well, they wouldn’t see that as something to exploit, but at the same time. You know it, they don’t do things that are reasonable, and I think it’s. It’s also having somebody else suffering horrifically can make somebody else in tolerate some pretty awful **** because they think, well, I’m not, I’m not.
CORY: At least I’m not, yeah.
ROSA: I’m, right?
CORY: I just don’t. Have that.
ROSA: Really when, when really the US empire Fox its own people just like it folks other people around the world just in different. Ways yeah and have. Being a pitiful masses can make you feel protected and convince you’re not being constantly assaulted and extracted from.
CORY: Yeah, creating an like a specific underclass that has like all these really poor state of being. Like then your workers. They’re placated. Well, now now I can, I can make my minimum wage job and barely make rent with three roommates, but I’m not at the border being abused by border guards, so.
ROSA: Yeah, I think perhaps the part of the thing about why they’re not so concerned about. Being able to have a large amount of workforce is that they will want to automate and I mean, somebody once asked me, do you think automation is the greatest threat to workers? Well, greatest liberation is literally that’s. A really dumb question. It could be one or the other. It really just depends who. Turns it’s in. You know, but it could literally be. The most incredible opening up of our lives and personal development and development is as communities. Or it could be. The worst dystopia we’ve ever known, and it is all about whether that is replacing your work or replacing your job and your livelihood. And I think that. That they will likely. Wait until they can automize, automate a lot of once they don’t want a long running movement against automation, as . Because there is already. One right people already unsatisfied with you, know self checkouts and things like this and but it will get worse. And I, I think that there’s it’s like. Degrowth is the same thing degrowth could be. The only way degrowth is not just austerity is if it’s redistributive, like it could. Again, there’s different degrowth, some better some dystopia, and like it, it’s. I find it really concerning when people just bound around the growth as a. Answer because it’s like people aren’t ******* stupid. They may understand the arguments that are that continuous growth is unsustainable, but they also know even though they know trickle down, there’s ******** really, that the only way that their economic prospects improve is if the state of the economy improves. And so and that means growth. And therefore when you’re telling somebody the growth, but you’re not telling them how their life is still going to get better, you are dismissing something so fundamental as a concern that. It is. It’s really appalling politics and appalling . Engagement with people on the precise level at which we’re meant to be helping, which is their material conditions and their hope for the future and to dismiss that you lose any ground that you were standing on as a voice. For them to think that they should listen to. So I think not only is it just a open-ended advocacy that could go, in completely the wrong ******* direction, it’s also. You know a mistake, a question quite acquitting. Is that a thing going on in the US? This.
ROSA: ******* me off.
CORY: So I hear it is but.
ELLIS: Right when I was, when I was younger, it was called work to rule, yeah?
CORY: He’s just not doing extra ****.
ELLIS: Yeah. Work to rule makes more sense to me than quiet quitting.
ROSA: Quite Britain literally implies that you’re not doing your job anymore, and. Yeah, what the **** does?
ELLIS: That mean what I mean.
ROSA: Well like ohh, they’re calling us lazy, you’re, you’re literally handing it to them. You’re saying I’m not doing my job anymore. The point of work to rule is I’m only doing the job you’re paying me to. Do and you’re not even. Paying me enough for that. So that’s like there’s. So many. So mistakes I see in advocacy that. Like of ostensibly.
ROSA: Good ****, but I just wanna shake people.
CORY: ‘s The quiet quitting thing really baffles me because I’ve always been like OK when I’m at work, I’m at work and when I’m at home, I’m not at work. So don’t *******. Yeah, yeah.
CORY: Call me, don’t ?
ELLIS: Yep, Yep.
CORY: Don’t bug me, I’m not. I’m not at work.
ROSA: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s that there’s also I mean only as a rhetorically, giving it to your opponents to call it quite fitting. It’s also disconnects it from a history that is comprehensive. That took a lot of discovery of legal limits as to the what you can define as. What is within the remit of the job you’re? Paid for there’s. Like capitalist came up with this concept of what was it? Malicious compliance.
CORY: Yes, yeah, that’s right.
ROSA: It’s literally a term that came up for work to rule action, malicious compliance, you’re complying with what your job is and that is malicious of you. You know, I. Mean It’s so done, but the point is that there is a history to this. There’s legal precedents that people need to be aware of if they’re engaging in. This action now by. Calling it, quitting. Divorcing it from work to rule as a form of direct action, but has lessons to be learned from its implementation in the past. It’s just. So it’s again strategically unwise just wildly, but I mean ultimately, we’d love to see work INS, but we have had a realization about that may not work as well nowadays because of the electronic transfer of wages, but. So that was.
ELLIS: Again, well, I mean I. I think The thing is, is. You have to with working. You have to understand that. Everybody has a part to play with in the business I’ve. Had my own business. Yeah, everybody within that business has a part to play. Even the accountant.
ROSA: Yeah, it was the most legitimately socialist example of running a business I’ve ever heard of. He paid himself the least and all of the decisions were. Made by all. The trades together and.
ELLIS: Right, I’m a I’m a qualified high voltage electric electrical fitter. Yeah anything over 1000 volts.
CORY: OK.
ELLIS: Yeah, so that’s industrial. Hospitals, shopping centers. Yeah, stuff like that, right? It’s all, it’s all. Most of. It is commercial. Yeah, I employed up to 8 people at a time. Yeah to work on different contracts.
CORY: OK.
ELLIS: There’d be like a school somewhere that’s 100 miles away and there’d be a factory 50 miles away. 2 contracts running at the same time. Two teams of four in, like 4 in each one. Yeah, my job. As owner director, all the rest of it of the business. My job is to go and get contracts, find contracts, to make sure that the money’s paid for the contracts that we’ve done, and to make sure that’s distributed amongst the workers in the business. Yeah, yeah, and the only the only money that doesn’t go to the workers is money that goes to things like van upkeep tools. You know what I mean? Equipment, supplies? Yeah, all of that yeah, so that’s how I worked it and. Because all I did was ride a motorbike around all day, like going and to meetings and signing checks and signing contracts. I’m doing **** all the guys that are working are doing the *******. Work right, yeah? So if you’re unqualified and you’ve got, you’ve got no qualifications and you’re just a labourer for one of my guys, I’m gonna pay you £100 a day. Yeah, that’s £500. Wait, that’ll cover your rent. That’ll cover your food, that’ll cover expenses there, and you’ll have a bit leftover. Right?
ELLIS: You won’t need to claim benefits to be able to do any of that. Which every other employer, it doesn’t matter where you work, you get a job. You have to claim benefits top up your wages so that you. Can pay the rent. Yeah, that’s just wait. Blocking works, but I don’t want that for my workers. Right, right? So the minimum I pay just 500 pounds. Week if you’re qualified, you’re getting £750 a week. Yeah, I mean you have to bear in mind this was. 10 years ago now yeah.
CORY: Right, so that’s pretty decent then.
ELLIS: Yeah, it was a good wage. Yeah, it was a good wage myself. I paid myself as much as I paid the untrained guys 500.
CORY: OK.
ELLIS: And a week. Yeah, and the only thing more that I took than that was petrol for the bike because I did do 1000 miles a week on the bike, right? Do what I mean? Yeah, so.
CORY: Right, yeah, so yeah, it can’t come out of your living expenses.
ELLIS: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I the if I paid myself 500 a week and tried to 1000 miles a week on the bike I would. Not have much. Money left I mean yeah. So and it worked. And when I? Went for contracts. And it got to the point after a couple of years where we’d be offered contracts rather than having to go and. Look for them, yeah? And like Tesco would come up to us and go. Yeah we we got a contract for you. We’re doing an expansion the 24 hour Tesco’s can you come and work nights 12 hour shifts, yeah? And I’m like, yeah ******* no problem. You know what I mean? Good money in that, yeah, and we’d usually try I. The only thing I ask of the people that I’m paying to that are working for me. Is that they work? Yeah, I don’t want to see you standing about watching ******* neighbours on your phone. Yeah, do what I mean? Yeah, yeah and.
ROSA: Considering he’s not nicking your surplus labor value, I think it’s a.
ELLIS: Fair request yeah. And the idea is that if you work most most crews on building sites don’t work most of the time. Yeah, yeah. Looking for ways out of work. Right, yeah, so can’t blame if you if.
ROSA: Don’t him.
ELLIS: We’ve got a. Contract right? And it’s a three month contract. And they’re paying us enough money for me to pay all of my dues for three months, and all of the supplies and all of the ancillaries and ******* everything right? And it’s a fat cheque for that. Yeah, what I used to say to them is look, this. This check is not for me. It’s for us. Yeah, so the sooner we finish this job. Yeah, the more money. We’re getting paid for the amount of time we’re working because it’s a standard fee for doing the job. Yeah, so if it’s a £40,000 check at the end of the job, yeah, and we can do it in three weeks. That’s a lot of ******* money coming our way.
CORY: Yeah, Yep.
ELLIS: You know what I mean, and that’s how we used to do it, and we made quite a lot of money at it. You know it was. It was good work.
ROSA: Funny how people are more motivated when you’re out like exploiting them, but the other.
ELLIS: One, you get a bonus at the end of every job, right? Right? Because there’s always money leftover from the cheque, right? Because you’re finished. Right, right? So you’re not paying six weeks worth of wages, yeah? So that just gets divided immediately equally between everyone. Yeah, what I mean? There’s no like Oh yeah, I’m having that. As profit ****. Off people are what I mean?
CORY: Like actual incentive to yeah.
ELLIS: Yeah, so they deserve it, so I’d split equally between everyone I meanother one we used to do is because it was like high voltage. A lot of the cables are like this, but yeah, so the copper core on them is worth a fortune.
CORY: Right?
ELLIS: And there’s always excess cable. Yeah, so I used to have a hydraulic cable cutter for cutting fat cables. Yeah, and you just whack it in the cutter and cut it. Cut it into metre lengths and then you pay one of the unqualified guys. One of the labourers. Yeah, you tell them to spend the whole day. Hey, just stripping all of the casing off of the cable so that it’s all down to the copper course. Yeah, and you end up with a big rack and these huge fat copper cores. Yeah, like big bars of copper and you Chuck them in the back of the van. Take them to a scrap yard. You get £1500 for them and then just split the money. Between everyone and. There’s ******* banging job. Really good job. I really enjoyed doing that, .
CORY: Yeah, no kidding yeah.
ELLIS: Yeah it’s looking brilliant, yeah?
ROSA: That sounds awesome. I mean, It’s. It’s not often that you hear examples of people who call themselves socialists or anything like that. Running businesses that are in any way that committed to. To the. Ethic, so? Yeah no I thought it was it was.
ELLIS: Pretty impressive, yeah. Yeah, I mean.
ROSA: And then stuff you were saying about the housing action like that. That’s the kind of thing that should be happening more. It was great there was. A last year, some anarchist.
ELLIS: Yeah, I mean I don’t. I’ve not heard of that going on like in modern like within the last sort of couple of decades people going and actually squatting houses as a group of people going and finding empty houses, opening them up, connecting them up to the electricity with a paid bill supply.
ROSA: I’ve just.
ELLIS: Yeah, and like putting furniture in it. Putting carpets down. The whole ******* works and then just giving the keys away to homeless people. I’ve not seen that in the last couple of decades. I’ve not heard of 1 instance of it. Do what I mean?
CORY: Yeah, yeah, that’s. That’s the kind of thing like it’s. I don’t know how.
ELLIS: Back in the late 1980s, that was massive.
CORY: Rainy the snake learned that they can crack down on it early. Yeah, I mean I did back from the yeah.
ROSA: Yeah, it’s I just got a follow back from the anti eviction squad network so maybe I’ll talk to them but it’s I was gonna say It’s that kind of radical action that it hasn’t been taken in ages and it’s what I one of the things I find so interesting talking to others is, . Yeah, yeah.
ROSA: Talking and some of his other friends, the other radicals from a time when radicals were actually bold and . It was quite exciting. I think I was gonna say yeah, last year some anarchists took over some Russian oligarchs mansion and like they sent in riot cops and like. It was like just three guys.
ELLIS: There’s three guys right in the house. Yeah it was hilarious.
ELLIS: You know what I mean? But because it was a Russian oligarch, they went ******* right over the top with it. ******* SWAT squad squad yeah.
ROSA: And because these people declared themselves to be anarchists as well, and so. You know people. Were like, oh yeah no, but good move I think with. Like we’ve got this, don’t pay campaign in the UK for energy bills, which is just I don’t know whether there’s any discussion of things like this in Canada or the OR the US, but don’t pay is literally we’re not gonna pay our bills, so this obviously doesn’t work for anybody on an electric meter because you. Don’t pay for topping up. You don’t have any energy, so it is. Right?
ROSA: You know it is limited in who can engage in it, but the idea is that if enough people engage in it, they can’t really effectively take punitive action against. You it’s a gamble, but to be honest, the only risk you’re really running is paying the bill you were gonna pay anyway if you don’t pay it, it just means you have to. Pay it later, . So It’s like it’s worth it to see whether you could shake things up a bit. So I like. I think that’s maybe something that. You know some people in other countries could do with looking at. I don’t know whether the the legal situation would be quite the same, for example. Like the DWP, which is like the disability and pensions services. They can make direct payments so if. Like for example. We didn’t pay the energy bills, they could take their money and pay them. But again, what risk is that actually running? You’re just ending up paying the bill. You would have paid anyway, so you may as well. You know, do that thing, it’s just some inconvenience so my concerns around that. For more vulnerable people have been ameliorated and I’m basically supportive of. You know anything that happens that I think essentially pushes us in the right direction that I show support both through to all sorts of campaigns and people that would probably think. We’re all for. You know, but I don’t.
ELLIS: I’ve changed, I’ve changed slightly.
ROSA: Really care because I think they’re still still useful if not. Saying exactly the thing I think is correct, they’re saying they’re communicating some of the arguments that you have to accept before you accept the arguments that I’m interested in talking about.
ELLIS: See I, I change it the whole don’t pay thing.
ROSA: And to be fair, it’s difficult like flipping between. The idea is that one has for like. That you just.
ROSA: Want to go reformist? Sucks like why aren’t you talking about this? Like I don’t have. Time for this ****. But this. Is obviously what you if. You don’t want a revolution cause you’re scared. That’s obviously what you should be saying and it’s a waste of time in many regards, but at the same time . I think I said the. Other day that like.
ROSA: Striving for revolution in a way is hedging your bets because there is still a chance in failure. You can achieve more than reformists could achieve in success.
CORY: Right, yeah?
ROSA: And like Michael Parenti, who I know isn’t very friendly about anarchists again again II. You know, I do listen to a lot of people who don’t agree on everything. You know, I’m not one. To like, refuse to engage in with Marxist leninists either. You know, I. I none of that. I mean like we do know a legitimate like authoritarian communist that we don’t talk to. Like it’s not like I don’t have a line but I think some people are wrong about. Right?
ROSA: It, but he said. That social democracy wouldn’t won by Social Democrats. So the Democrats were created. They were the capitalists that saw a compromise to ameliorate a public in at the time of a popular full on revolutionary communist movement. It was. It was the failure of thattempted. Revolutionary period the gave us the most effective reform reform that did matter, like as a disabled person. The benefits that I live on that we live on wouldn’t ******* exist without social democracy. And I, I don’t think it’s good to completely dismiss. Elements of progress and distinguish bad from worse. For example, I think the Tories Labour. They’re both ******* terrible. On some issues they are literally as bad as each other, on others they are. They are, one is worse than the other. You know both things can be true and. And considering that the things that they’re both terrible on are like the primary causes of. All the other. ****, it’s it seems the. Answer is fairly. Obvious, I mean, I did write a blog post, I don’t know if but Keir Starmer, the leader of the Labour Party here is not popular. He like lied to I wasn’t a part of the Labour Party. I didn’t vote in this election, but. I saw what he. Said to the members and he just lied completely and. Every point since when he’s rode back from all of the pledges, he’s just been celebrated for doing so by the British mediand it because. You know, as one of the more tame left wing commentators said, because the less are not treated like legitimate political actors. So I ask. Why do we keep chasing legitimacy then if they won’t? Give it to. Us if they don’t treat us like we’re legitimate, why are we restraining ourselves? To their. Definition of legitimacy. The enemy’s definition is absurd, and it wasn’t legitimacy or legitimate, presentable Social Democrats that won social democracy. So it it’s never been legitimacy by which we’ve achieved the most that the left has ever achieved. And I’m more convinced of that. Than ever, so I’m fairly patient with people who say, you may wanna disavow us for now. But when these other campaigns fall away, it’ll be people like us who are still sticking around, . And like I’m curious to see. Whether like that. Manner I was talking about the trade Union Leader. And he Dempsey will stick around. I mean, this a man who. Who’s publicly called himself a revolutionary in recent weeks, which is bold, and so who knows.
CORY: Yeah, yeah.
ROSA: Maybe maybe he. Will still be around when the rest of the trade union movement. Fails, I mean. That’s how the general strike in 19. 26 failed
ELLIS: He was starting to get fire in the press today.
ROSA: Yeah, I know. Yeah, I was talking about that earlier and yeah, yeah It’s a load of nonsense. Yeah, yeah, It’s. It’s really disappointing because. Yeah, I think of what some people think of as empathy. You know, people get empathy and sympathy very confused. I think that empathy is as the exercise of imagination for how somebody can arrive at a position, not necessarily any agreement or endorsement in that. Well, yeah, when I first met Ellis? OK.
ROSA: I mean he was joining when I was doing a period of live streaming and. And talking directly with fascists a lot, and I had an approach that they hadn’t really encountered which did engage in. A kind of. I get how you. Got to this but I also think you’re *******. Scum, it was it was it? Was a very balanced approach, in equal. Pleasure engaging in their questions because I believe that the lack of answers was what was leading them to accept these incorrect analysis of fascists, but also just making it so clear. That I am not investing time in your deradicalization I think it’s possible and I think it’s actually my understanding of the radicalization of fascists is that the belief that society will never accept them after having been fascists is one of the things that keeps people fascists. So they think, well, I’ve been ******* Nazi. Nobody wants me back I’ll stick with my Nazi friends it’s and so letting people know. There is a form of redemption there, but pairing it with but no, I’m not going to invest time in it because the likelihood of success. While I think it’s possible for you, so I’m not saying you’re just irredeemable, it’s just too. It’s too low for me to invest my energy there, but. Planting that seed or that society could forgive you. You could act, cause I mean, former Nazis have performed incredible service to anti fascism that is undeniable. And anybody who doesn’t want to engage in any discussion with anybody who’s held reprehensible views. Just because it’s deeply uncomfortable, it doesn’t really want to learn about how to prevent this perpetuating? I mean, I’ve spoken to somebody who was a like a member of order of the 9 angles that was ******. I mean he wasn’t as bad as many of them in that circle, but that was. Such a strange conversation, but it was also incredibly illuminating, made me. Reconsider, some anarchist notions and rhetoric about about freedom, because freedom for these people is absolute freedoms. The freedom to transgress on others and.
CORY: Right?
ROSA: Anarchism is precisely against that. So what we’re not about is absolute freedom. We’re about almost a utilitarian freedom where we can all be the most free by not transgressing against one another.
CORY: You know, and you’ve.
ROSA: Got people who their conception of freedom is. Is it so individualistic that they Right?
ROSA: They feel special. About exerting power over other people because that is ultimate freedom and. There’s still really.
ROSA: Corrosive motions of what freedom is and others and. Or mainstream ones like whether you should be free to own an SUV when it has. Those so much damage. Whether you should be free to. Hoard more money. Than you couldn’t spend in a ******* lifetime, right? Like that restrains the freedom of so many other.
ROSA: People you’re fundamentally less free if you’ve got enough less money. There is a finite amount of resources and whatever the inflation is that money represents, access to those resources. That is finite. So where there is wealth, there will always be poverty, and where and there is only wealth because there is poverty vice versa. Is yeah.
ROSA: We need to understand why some people. Kind of book at the our statements about anti authoritarianism. Because while we are anti authoritarian we are asserting a different analysis of what freedom it is OK to express because we believe that the freedom to do some things impinges too far on the. Freedom of others. And the fact that is that is not enforced by a state under the and the anarchist proposal is kind of besides the point in terms of people. Understanding where you’re coming from and why that’s important and why that’s not an aligned thing, but in fact the only way to give people the fairest chance in life.
CORY: Like I often joke. About the freedom from capitalism, it’s just the freedom to buy seven different kinds of ketchup. Like It’s not true freedom and like I mean, I think everybody knows the baconing quote about how I’m not free so long as. No other people are unfree.
ROSA: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So yeah.
ROSA: And that’s very much. The attitude. We bring to. You know, action the climate, like I was talking earlier about. About Pakistan, it’s You know, I’m not. I’m not OK with this happening to anyone anywhere. You know. I’m certainly not OK with. It happening after ******* decades of promises in the knowledge of what was coming and total inaction. Constant insult as they play, pay lip service to the suffering of these people and yet within a ******* week of this, some of the worst flooding we’ve ever seen. Jacob ************* Reese Mugg, who is one of the worst people in our politics. By the way he wears a monocle and a top hat sometime. And see.
CORY: Oh, that’s good, yeah?
ROSA: He was like a Charles Dickens character and he needs to be leveled up a ******* lamppost.
ELLIS: Commonly known as the Victorian haunted pencil.
ROSA: He’s a climate change. Nowadays, because there aren’t many outright climate deniers in British politics anymore.
CORY: Right, they’re just like, oh, but the economy. And blah blah blah.
ROSA: Yeah, it’s a lot of that. I mean, there is a bit of a resurgence actually in more denialist stuff, like with the new.
CORY: Oh, is there?
ROSA: Yeah, it’s concerning. It’s not, but it’s not surprising. I mean, one of the things I say about the likelihood of Brexit going the way it went is down to the incredible amount of money funneled towards it by climate denialist networks. There’s a great work by Desmog called like mapped the who’s who of Brexit and climate denial, which I consider to be some of the most important reporting.
CORY: OK.
ROSA: On Brexit in terms. It’s influence where it was likely to go, but obviously people don’t know any of that the time when they voted. Yeah, he’s been appointed as Energy Minister or yeah, energy minister. Yeah, this man who’s denying climate change within weeks of. I mean, it’s incredible. I used to before I got. Like informed enough to like speak about things. I was just watching the news and playing my weird form of catch up on politics and I was just constantly harassing the BBC for a while, saying. It is not hard to explain warmer atmosphere climate change. Global warming can hold more moisture for longer and then it all comes down at once. That’s why it rains infrequently, but when it rains it really ******* rains. How hard is it to explain that we got? Were having floods here everywhere. This, it’s actually one of the most obvious. Link like links of like extreme weather that you can explain really easily to people to do with climate change. Right?
ROSA: Some of them are really complex, like storms and stuff like the relationship between the increase in occurrence and the severity is very complicated, but. The rain one and the floods. It’s so easy.
ROSA: And people don’t get it, but this absolutely this bad because of climate change. Without a ******* doubt I’ve got. I got friends with family there, and ? And obviously I hope their family is safe, but I wish all of their families. Were safe, it, it’s just it’s.
CORY: Yeah for sure.
ROSA: It’s horrendous, but it was. It was nice to see that there was a video of Indiand Pakistani soldiers waving and dancing at each other over watchtowers. After the floods. Like in support, which is, I mean these countries have real animosity their their powers have been in conflict for so long. They’re on the brink of war all. The *** **** time and. You know It’s a nice example that there is. Something still there in people even within structures like the military that make them want to connect with people in the other, . You know the opposite.
CORY: Shared suffering and.
ELLIS: Exactly, well the military is made-up of individuals. Yeah, do what I mean? And individuals have connections with other individuals and it is easy to connect with. I mean. People, yeah? And I, I mean It’s like the First World War when the English and the Germans started playing football on Christmas Day. It just came out of the trenches and started playing football with each other. You know what I mean? It’s and when I used to go to Stonehenge and the police just try and stop us. And yeah, fun would ensue and. Yeah, and what? What we used to do is you, like you’ve got like. Hundreds of coppers in front of you. 3 deep in a line from the horizon to her. Poison and you just pick one like the one that’s easily identified. That bloke with the ginger beard. Yeah, and you tell everyone around you. The bloke with the ginger beard bloke with the ginger beard and everybody just targets that one copper with abuse. Yeah, and it’s just. Targeted right at him. Do what I mean? And it’s just a full on barrage of like hundreds of people screaming.
CORY: Something he’s not part of a. ***** he’s a dude being of.
ELLIS: Yeah, and what I mean.
ROSA: That reminds me of.
ELLIS: It just ***** with thead.
ROSA: Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome that and what I was saying earlier about fascists.
ELLIS: It’s gotta be. Done, ?
ROSA: You know, being able to not be fascists anymore. And like my ability to even have respect for somebody who acts against fascism at that. Point, but not investing time in deradicalizing them individually is very much the same feeling I had when I saw. I think. It was. Me and Ma police officer take off his helmet and join the protesters and it’s like you. Know what great? I’ll give him a clap and a. Pat on thead at this. Point right, but do not waste time. Trying to get this to.
CORY: We’re not trying.
ROSA: Happen would you?
CORY: Yeah, we’re not trying to convince. Just be pleased when it.
CORY: You to do this.
ROSA: When it happens going oh nice one but don’t don’t don’t actually invest. Any effort in making this a? More likely occurrence because you’re not gonna.
CORY: Yeah, no, that’s true.
ELLIS: It’s like ******* thousands of people. And they’re all facing off against thousands of cops. And there’s a gap of about 30 feet between cops and the people. Yeah, and I’m at the front. I’ve taken some acid I’m tripping balls, man, .
ROSA: But I’m at.
ELLIS: The front yeah. And I saw. On the side of the road there’s like a road going that way big **** *** building there. Yeah, on the corner of it and the big **** *** building on the corner of this one. The cops are on that side and we’re on this side. Like and I saw like four or five cases. I remember one of them with a brown leather jacket, yeah, and they came out from behind the police right up against the building and went round the corner and down the street a bit and crossed the road and then came back up and came into our site. And it was like from where they were. That rocks and **** started going towards the cops. And then it all kicked off, ah. Mate, I saw it ******* plain as daylight. Do what I mean? It was up until that point it was just lots of shouting. You know there’s lots of shouting and everyone had come to a stop in front of this huge police line. Yeah, that was ******* under. It’s deep. It was like half a brick and a ******* bottle and like what I mean. And then all of a sudden the police just went **** this and charged, . Of course, yeah.
CORY: Well now something’s been thrown, so they have. Reason right?
ELLIS: Yeah.
ROSA: Last year, the police charged a group of seated protesters and then claimed that they had had their ribs broken and lungs punctured. And yet they didn’t. They retracted that, like the next day, you.
ELLIS: Yeah, none of it was true.
ROSA: See, one guy injured his hand. In his own police car, because he shot it in the cage in the back?
CORY: OK, yeah.
ROSA: Yeah, that’s. That was it.
ROSA: Like look at the breakdown of the injury of the protesters or someone else.
ELLIS: Yeah, that was the only police injuring. Yeah, they waited, the police just waded in with nightsticks and Shields like with seated protesters.
ROSA: And you got a lot of people in our country right now with the discussion about strikes and civil disobedience saying oh, but what if this what the government wants and they want to, bring in even more draconian measures under the guise of defending themselves against. It’s like.
ROSA: That is one of the saddest *** **** things. I’ve ever heard. In my life that’s just you. Believe these people are. So evil that they would. Do that and your response. Is let’s hope they don’t get worse rather than let.
CORY: If we don’t do anything, they won’t get. Know what?
ELLIS: They do.
ROSA: You know in. Other words, bring it on. You know, I mean, surely that’s where this going and kind of running out of time so. Frankly to be a revolutionary is to be a balanced accelerationist so. You have to like consider how some of the things like I wrote a blog post about Keystone of being a Prime Minister keystone of Prime Minister. The hate the left hates kissama for good reason because I Legitimately think for as long as there is an opposition to the Tories, people will cling on to the hope that will better and they will.
CORY: Right?
ROSA: Prefer to hold on to that. Than choose the legitimately. Difficult decision and it should be difficult. Otherwise you’re being naive to revolt right? And until we cause what we’re seeing in the US with Biden is finally a discontent that voting blue is not enough Democrats. We call your bluff that chant that was beautiful to see that because and you couldn’t see that when Trump was in. And the Democrats have it. Sure, you probably know they. Again they literally funding right wing like contenders and trumpets because they want to threaten the electorate with fascist violence if they don’t accept their mediocre offer. I mean, it’s disgusting, and I hope that. The customer is elected Prime Minister because I, I think. In the same way that liberals held on to hope when Trump was in office, and certainly because the Conservatives have been in office for so ******* long, because the Labour Party has been untested for so long for 12 years, they haven’t had to demonstrate their ability to make things better, so people can hold all sorts of imagination. Of the improvement possible, but I do not believe any reformist any person that’s going to continue the neoliberal order can satisfy that level of change that ameliorates revolutionary action, wherein the pan. First reform did that. You know it, it reform was something you almost were concerned about because it would calm people down and they wouldn’t go further. Now I just don’t think It’s reasonable to think that anybody could offer people something that doesn’t fall short and. Frankly, it’s only once you’ve seen you have no alternatives that many people will accept the difficult and potentially bloody task of revolution, and that’s understandable. So kids down the Prime Minister I.
ELLIS: Guess would have been radicalized from a young lad because when I when I was 11 I went to private school, even though my parents there was no way they could afford it. Yeah, I yeah, I the government decided that they’d pay for me to go to private school, yeah?
ROSA: He’s a very clever boy.
ELLIS: And I was the only poor kid there. I went to school, I went to school with the Prince in Nigeria. My mum lived in a 2 bedroom terraced house. My uniform didn’t fit my I mean I was wearing cheap green NHS glasses. And so people are legitimately ********. Like I know this from private school.
ELLIS: I got so much **** when I was at school for being a poor kid. Do what I mean? And yeah. Took me until the third year to learn to box. You know, and from there on, I didn’t really get much.
CORY: ****, the class stratification. Was pretty obvious at that point.
ELLIS: **** it was, yeah. Yeah, and then I went and then I went and joined, joined the Army and like the ******* Cold War was still going on. Yeah I joined the British Army as a child. Soldier, they’re are.
ROSA: One of the few countries that enlists 16 year.
ELLIS: There are three countries.
CORY: Olds, oh jeez, yeah.
ELLIS: There are three. There are three countries that have child soldiers according to Amnesty International, and that’s North Korea, Irand the United. Kingdom yeah Jesus.
ROSA: We still have them.
ELLIS: And yeah, yeah.
ROSA: We still enlist and.
ELLIS: We still in this 16 year olds and still have them in our army. Like you weren’t you, you weren’t see like.
ELLIS: You know?
ROSA: Active war zones at 17 or 16. But you will you. Know you’re very young. And to be subject to a heavily indoctrinating system? Yeah, and I mean I obviously didn’t know, he just said thank you for the skills and.
ELLIS: Yeah, I mean what? The main reason I joined was because I knew that if I joined and I joined the Royal Engineers. Then they would teach me pretty much any skill I wanted to learn any trade I wanted to learn, anything I wanted to learn. They do everything from blacksmithing to electronics. To ******* mechanics. Do what I mean? You can learn anything, yeah?
ROSA: Because The thing is, is soldiers are not heroes.
ELLIS: And that’s why I joined. There are people.
ELLIS: That’s why I joined, yeah?
ROSA: They didn’t join because they felt some noble draw towards dying for their country. They join because they wanted access to education, . And **** like that. And that is. It’s so explosive it was incredible to see. I think it was a US politician. Just go and mask off about that, like complaining about the Student Loans is gonnaffect army enlistment.
ELLIS: Well, I mean other times.
ROSA: It’s like dude. The quiet part. Fun mark.
ROSA: You didn’t real loud.
ELLIS: Margaret Thatcher was into her second term office here in the UK. When I joined. And before I joined,, before I left school, we had a careers officer came round to the school to talk to like the kids about what they’re gonna do once they leave school. And he said to me that because I didn’t have family that were industrialists, or I didn’t have family to fall back on. I had two choices. I could either join the forces or sign on. Because there was no work. Out there.
ELLIS: And I decided to join forces now. Even even with.
ROSA: That benefit of access to private education and doing well in it.
ELLIS: Imagine I made. I figured I made the best choice I could with the Royal Engineers. And I learned I learned communication, sabotage.
ROSA: Communication sabotage?
ELLIS: I learned building demolition. I learned things like how to completely cut off a town for an invasion.
CORY: Oh, geez.
ELLIS: Like completely cut it off from communication. Travelling and out everything everything we’ll. Can look you can look up the plans for a new device online like Google will tell you tell you how to device but all you gotta do is scale it down.
ROSA: But you could make one so small you could put it inside a tennis ball. Check it out.
ELLIS: Yeah you don’t have to have much range on it. A couple. Of metres will do, yeah. And you get a tennis ball, split, open 9 Volt battery with the capacitor on it with a little bit of circuit board. Yeah, and there you go. Yeah, it’s done right and then all you gotta do is just throw it at the cops. Yeah, and if you get like loads of people with loads of these tennis balls and they all throw them at the cops then it’ll fry every communication device that they have. Yeah, and they’ll have no way of communicating with each other. And if you get one.
ROSA: On top of a police. Station near the aerial. Yeah, if you follow on.
ELLIS: Because police station has big aerial, yeah.
ROSA: The like the whole building.
ELLIS: One of those tennis balls on top of the police station. Yeah, it’ll pulse for. It’ll go for maybe 30 seconds before dying. Yeah, but if at any point in that. 30 seconds they have an outgoing transmission. Yeah, it’ll fly the transmitter. Yeah, so they’ve got no communications from the station out.
CORY: Right, yeah, that’s pretty good.
ROSA: You know some cool stuff.
ELLIS: I mean, back back in the days it stopped the city like stopped the city was the thing that went on in. London in the. 80s yeah, and the idea was like it went on in London, Manchester, Liverpool. Those few cities. Did it, yeah. But the idea was you just stopped the city you like. Pick up the tube the tube entrances. Picket bus stops. Yeah, stop people going to work stop people like just what I mean stop. The city, yeah.
CORY: Disrupt things, yeah?
ELLIS: Yeah. And it was ******* awesome. It was really good. Stuff, yeah.
CORY: Yeah, that’s great.
ELLIS: But one one idea for that was to get the EMP. Yeah, and like have a like. If you’re in a car, you got a box of them. Yeah, and you just have an on off switch inside the slot on the on the tennis ball. Yeah, so you just turn it on and Chuck it or turn it on and put it somewhere. You get like. Cyclists go around the city, right, delivering stuff, Courier. If you just stuck one like you’re at a traffic light, you lean out of the car and just like take one to the back of his bike and then turn it on everywhere he goes, he’s gonna he’s gonna cut out laptops, cars, ******* everything’s just gonna stop working everywhere he goes, yeah.
CORY: We’ve got a. We’ve actually got a comment. Utah Outcast says be careful if you do that, don’t have any Google searches related online purchases that are related. I feel like that would be a federal. Crime here in the states. So you want to be very careful. Yeah, Oh yeah, definitely be careful and do not take anything we say may we may do as.
ROSA: As the advice of. This not what’s. Going on.
ELLIS: What I really mean? Is open up your modified Mozilla Firefox. And go on.
CORY: Yes yeah.
ELLIS: Go on DuckDuckGo with Matt and friends and have a look and I’m sure you’ll find.
CORY: Your VPN and your.
ELLIS: It yeah.
CORY: Your Tor browser.
ROSA: Something that I think is not realized by a lot of the online left, which is obviously as I mentioned, the only kind of presence that I have is online. Apart from the fact that I know Ellis and his other comrades that weren’t online at all, they’re still. Looking anarchists, they’re still radicals. They were they were, fighting police., against violence against travellers back in the day, they still hold the same ideals. Now there are a lot of people who never stopped wanting this change, yeah? I, I think and people don’t realize enough that how many of them. Stop like talking about their ideas, but if they saw something happen, if they saw a revolution come. There are tons of people. Who would suddenly step thell up and be ready for down or anything because they’ve been wanting it their whole lives? But they. May have been, disillusioned and. You know, disenfranchised, but they were never hyper normalized. They, never let go of a radicalism that is actually rare to see nowadays anyway. And you’re, I mean, you’re seeing exciting stuff with younger people like, I mean, your son. Jake is incredibly based, but that’s not surprising. You know, but, yeah, there is more and. Like say we talk openly about our political views with a. Lot of people we don’t necessarily. We don’t. Ask them their.
ROSA: View and they’re like they give their views on what we say, but we don’t ask their political affiliation before we start. And everybody is incredibly accepting of it. And a lot of people they don’t flinch. Suggestion of revolution. They are just waiting. Yeah, there are a lot of people who really are not. They’re prepared to take that risk at trying something new and I think it’s always wrong to like suggest that it’s not a risk because it’s a risk you don’t know where the. Revolution’s gonna go. And I you. Know This why I think it’s. It’s not, . There is utility in some people talking about specialized. You know ideologies and types of anarchism and everything, but . But I am a pragmatic in my own way, just not within the artificial confines of people like Keith Starmer when he talks about pragmatism, like and the basis of that is kind of isn’t even a really appropriate analogy because there is more scope. Or possible improvement and or in the analogy, cure in this world with the issues we face than there is with my health. But I know what the difference is between bucking terrible and even worse, the difference is wanting to live or die, ? It’s these things matter, and if ideal is not attainable, it is still worth something to make things as good as you can. Anarchist as a political ideology describes my ideal and the way in which I understand the world, the kind of concerns that I have and would bring to any other. System that comes in contact with those concerns, but it’s not the only scenario I consider worth fighting for. I think it’s worth fighting for every inch.
CORY: So yeah, no, that’s that. Makes sense to me.
Interview about State Persecution on Mind of A Skeptical Leftist
Participants: Cory Johnston, Rosanna Lilley & Ellis Langsdale
Date: Dec 20, 2022
Source: <https://web.archive.org/web/2oe_/http://wayback-fakeurl.archive.org/yt/OIeGZLRi_DE>
CORY: Alright, so we are now live. Everybody knows the show. It’s the mind of a skeptical leftist and I’m talking to Rosa Ann Ellis from we are the intolerant left and we’re talking about the prosecution that you’re facing from the state.
ROSA: Yeah, I mean at present charges haven’t been brought, which kind of highlights the ridiculousness, because if they really had the evidence they claimed and in recent days like kind of partially because of this delay with our lawyer, told us what almost four weeks ago that one or actually both of us might be, would definitely be arrested. In the next two weeks now, it’s been 4 weeks they haven’t.
CORY: OK.
ROSA: If they really have this evidence. A wish to be like. People need to realize the only thing that somebody being investigated this. Or their lawyer gets told at the. Time is that. They get told by. A cop that cop. Labs have found a thing like if we aren’t presented with proof that they actually found anything, and because.
UNKNOWN: OK.
ROSA: We believe that the. The aim of this and the reason why this allegation was chosen.
ELLIS: The other station for my our computer is.
ROSA: Well, partially together things from our computers. I mean, I kind of I. Strongly believe and I have. We have a hacker friend who agrees that this is probably the reason why we’re short the Volt 7 league was, you know, caught for espionage and why they raided him for CD, which he denied for a very long time and you know, there are coercive parts of surviving in prison. Like shortening the sentence that can get people to decide to recount that, but I have. I have a friend who says, you know, he worked for me and. To say he was. A pro hacker. If he was an actual people who would never have been. Caught, but crucially, they could never have made that. Case for espionage. If they hadn’t seized his devices or CP, now they would have had no basis at the time to seize other bases to look at. It for terrorism. I’m sure is what they would like to look at us for. You know this is what they tried to.
ELLIS: Yes, we.
ROSA: Put away to be shown for a week.
ELLIS: We tried to tread on egg shells. When we do the broadcast in that we run close to the line of being kicked off of YouTube, but we try to keep within that line, you know?
UNKNOWN: OK.
ROSA: Yeah, I mean what people need to understand. Is first of all you. Probably have never heard Russian. We’re well aware. Of that that. We’ll also be aware of the notion of anything a problem in the. But but you should know. And you will see. If you take the time to to look. At our work the there. We aren’t like any other anarchist Youtubers there is nobody else who says quite the same things. I’m sure they probably believe a lot of them, but they talk about whether revolution would work, where the revolution is just by we talk about doing a ******* revolution. Right now and how?
ELLIS: Yeah, we talk. We talk about how to. Take action and.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ELLIS: You know?
ROSA: You know we.
UNKNOWN: Could have like.
ROSA: I was saying before we went like if I thought that the the. The comrades that you know. I thought. Were just waiting for somebody to put their head. Above the power, but I thought that they. Kind of didn’t want that. Which it kind of seems like.
ROSA: Most of them.
ROSA: Don’t to be honest if. I thought that they didn’t want that. I we would have just been another one of. Those ******* animals Youtubers we. Would have just had our life my life. Only just got. Good, just real single. Was finding each other. Well, we found each other because of our shared love for revolution and preparedness. Take great risks so we didn’t let that hold us back. But, crucially, because we. Had faith we had a we had a bit more faith that people would see this and I understand that the allegation is upsetting it. And for many triggering it literally is for. Me, and that’s why we believe we chose it. This is why we. Say we don’t think they ever expect it to. Have to produce manufactured evidence to a court. Right and therefore at this point. At this point may not have even done that work. Right and This is why maybe the it’s taking so long with the. CPS because because we haven’t. ******* killed our well because I haven’t. Killed Ellis yet. Which is plan A because it’s the point is. I I’ve been a victim of a number of forms of sexual trauma by a number of abusers and that all started because I was made so vulnerable by the attentions of a ********** and it made me blood in the ******* water for every abuser that I got near you know. I spent most of my life in and out of you know, always treated for mental illness since I was 12 in and out of psychiatric wards, making many suicide attempts. The idea that the state would believe it’s an attainable aim to get me to kill myself, let alone if you read my my poetry. And the art to make me kill. Ellis, if I believed it was true. Yeah, to believe that that is that they believed it was an attainable aim is perfectly reasonable. It’s a profile that can be gleaned from. I put out there. For for 15 years, my advocacy expanded and like about four years or so ago to broader politics. But that’s literally what I did, and it’s the easiest thing in the world. To read my poetry and go well. If we made this allegation about her husband, she would get and the truth is I’ll probably do it if I just look suspicious, it wouldn’t. Be right, just. To do it over. The insufficiencies and it and believing it given that. He is innocent, wouldn’t be right, but. That’s the reality that ****** ** I am you. It’s easy to see that there is a burning violence of having regretted not killing my abuser and just ******* waiting for the chance. Frankly, in any of my writing about the subject that’s been in the public domain for 15 years to so we believe that they expected planning to kill him, that’s. Like the tops and B we kill. Ourselves, probably because. I do and then I just can’t do this without me, and given my history of suicide, that’s a very attainable aim to. And given what he’s ******* faced. With alone, it’s a very attainable aim to. I believe they almost looking tried to.
UNKNOWN: Do that already.
ROSA: One of the first things in the first blog post where we started doing this publicly was they tried to section. For starters, just like I predicted, they triggered a, you know, a big PTSD response because I’m having like booking a child who’s described to me as a victim of child abuse and. Like I’ve I’ve checked with like, the charges were dropped on the day. I’ll get that, but I have also checked with the witnesses and they back. Back my words as. Well, I explained that I wanted to kill myself and nothing was mentioned of it at the time. No claim was made that I said anything else at the time. It was only after they tried to section. That and they took me to mental health crisis center. The mental health workers. This is why I was considering actually. Relenting and allowing myself to be put in hospital because then. Maybe people would actually. Looking listen because I know that no mental health professional, just like those ones. None of those those ones couldn’t. None of them could listen to what I was saying even back then before. I heard before the other. And think she’s definitely saying that because she’s lost grip of reality due to mental. Health I mean, for starters I’ve had. Mental problems my whole life, but they are depression anxiety and I’ve never been and never lost grip of reality. That’s just not the nature of my mental health problems.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ROSA: Been in wards. Well I’m the only person not talking to somebody who wasn’t there just because it got that bad. But to be honest. It never got bad. In that way, you know I. Mean so yeah, I. Don’t believe any. Of them could do that and they didn’t they. Just said they turned to. The police and. Said listen, she’s just very triggered and hacked. Basically, and so, no, we can’t. We’re not gonna. You know approved this cop. Requested sectioning of this person and bear in mind I took spend my time describing my relief that we were being targeted because we were anarchist revolutionaries and they said this when they said that they weren’t gonna sign us off. The police went back. Into the hallway made a. Call presumably to a superior, came back in and arrested me. They didn’t tell me what for. I meant it’s not surprising they didn’t because their mental health professional would have recognized it. Based on the response, I would have had based on the response I did have when I found out that this was a flagrant act of gaslighting and they would have called it out. So anyway, I get walked out in cuffs saying Oh yeah, no, I think it’s not being targeted at all and this is surely. Floor and the up and up and. The jaws are on the floor. I get back to the police station and somebody. Tells me I. Was under arrest for threats to kill. Well, I said who? And they said. That I threatened to kill Alice. That I said I wanted to kill Allison. I mean, if I was going to be a pernickety like. Also say saying you wanna kill somebody’s actually a threat but the point is. I never ******* said that I said to them instantly ******* lie that you’re making to establish the line that I believe. Your lies about my husband. To strengthen your lies about my. Husband go **** yourself. No way. He claimed there. Was CCTV foolishly very foolishly because I just went OK then show me it. Never was produced even in. My interview, it took 5 minutes because I just went show me that CCTV it doesn’t exist. Well, it will exist. But it will just show me. Saying something else. And you know, there’s literally nothing we can do to get out of that, so the charges were dropped and also notable. I was arrested for assaulting a police officer that day, which has been settled with a caution which our lawyer couldn’t. I believe, and the reason I believe they settled out with the caution rather than charging me like they normally would, was because they don’t want us talking about any of this in front of a court before they get the fit up before before court. They want nobody to probably know about this. For as long as possible.
ELLIS: Sorry to go down.
ROSA: Which is, you know why? They say to people I. Need them? We need them sharing this yeah. Yeah I have to. Admit you. Know everybody in the circle to which I’ve. We’re trying to reach out they’re activists, right? Yeah, they really understand that. Like little digital. Hearts literally mean nothing. I’ve said this in other cases, not just. Our own, you know, but. The you know the truth. Is it’s about? Eyes and allies. The only way you increase that, we’re literally putting out content every ******* day RSLS. Our social media is so. ****** that no one can find. Anything with search results. And I can’t find our own threads. We were also we were suspended and once I was released from custody, which was 12 hours. By the way, I was also denied medication which they were able to do only by lying to us about what was required to. Give get my medication to me and lying to say that they would give me the medicine. A little box that he handed over. Obviously, he said I don’t believe you, but you know the fact is that he was right not to believe them because so they can try to deny me mental health medication for a number of hours and then attempted.
ELLIS: 2 doses.
ROSA: 2 doses and then attempted to charge me with something I didn’t do, presumably because they thought in a disoriented state I might go Oh my God. Maybe I did. Which was highlighted by afterwards after the interview. The police officer person who initially told me that about this lie said well, what did she say and the police officer said she just strenuously denies the charges. He asked her in like 3 different. Ways and she. Said exactly the same thing and he said.
ROSA: What she won’t.
ROSA: Even concede. She maybe said it in the heat. At the moment, and I said, absolutely not. And you don’t have the CCTV. That’s where this ******* But anyway, that’s probably enough about that day. I mean, we’ve got a full, you know, a thing.
CORY: There’s the whole yeah.
ROSA: It’s all in one document, but there is. The first blog post it’s. On this and the other ones are just on home page. We are intolerant online does go into.
ELLIS: Yeah, I wrote everything out yesterday and it’s well past few days, but really long.
ROSA: Passing days. It’s bloody long. You’ll see why it took so long to put together.
ELLIS: There’s a, there’s a lot of this, cause I mean, obviously there’s like because we we didn’t have that large an audience.
ROSA: Once you see it.
ELLIS: A lot of people are saying, well, why are you? Why target you? Yeah, but.
ROSA: Actually, to be honest, not.
ELLIS: It’s because.
ROSA: Many people are even saying. That well, this is something we’re.
ELLIS: It’s because of our past, it’s.
ROSA: Imagining they’re thinking because people won’t engage at all.
ELLIS: It’s because of our past I. I mean, I. I was saying this morning I had the theory that they were specifically targeting me because of previous actions I’ve done and the threat of the attractions, yeah?
ROSA: It’s also. It’s yeah. Like reasonable for them. To that, taking Ellis out would Take Me Out of action because I would have nowhere to go. I would have to presumably go. Home which is not a happy place for me to. Be honest, they’re not. The worst. Family in the world. But it’s I had to get out and also taking yours out. Very reasonable for them to believe. That would mean me and if. Psychiatric ward for the rest of my. ******* life. So I think also it’s a harder lie to sell about me because of all that public work, which is also the reason why we say they chose this allegation.
CORY: I think I think the question about like.
ROSA: You also chose the allegation because obviously it’s uncomfortable for. Anybody who agrees with. Us because it’s fundamentally opposed to our politics. That’s the point of. That’s the point of all of this. Now I had to resist a pretty ******* evil sign. Up right. And I’m sorry. But the weakness of so many people to not even engage and ask the questions to seek to understand they’re being played like that, because this is so often all of us, by the way, just like it’s a smear on all of us. It’s been done before. We don’t know that he was definitely. Innocent, but it kind of looks like he. Was a man in Arizona. Where I believe he led a protest. He was later charged with. Child *********** and then before he was even, he pled not not guilty for two years, and the when he did plead guilty, there were two things that could have factored into that as to why which went to reducing the sentence. Both of them. Anyway, the police officer has said now I know he. Hasn’t been charged.
UNKNOWN: I don’t really.
ROSA: Want to comment? But this is really why we shouldn’t listen to people who talk about defunding the police, because he probably knew he’d have an encounter like this one day. They will smear all of us. Now their blindness. The incredible line is that people, not to. See that not? To see that obviously I’m saying I’m being manipulated because of my visceral.
UNKNOWN: OK, I mean.
ROSA: Something I’ve obviously had. Hope in my heart for a long time. Given what I’ve already told you.
ELLIS: First thing 1st century.
ROSA: But it’s one of the first things that. I learned from. Him was like that. Of that as a political slogan. I love that from him ******** like there was just there was literally no reason none at all, from anybody who actually knows him, let alone anybody on the on the Internet to not trust us. And I cannot ******* believe how much they still trust cops. Clearly, I mean, come on. The only people who claim that we’re guilty, even like some Internet *******. We’ve got argument the other day. Now I’ve kind of been. Worried that in some Twitter beef somebody would cynically claim to believe they’re guilty, right? They can’t even do. That in that context, because they know how ridiculous and unfounded and
UNKNOWN: Cynical it would look.
ELLIS: So how in God’s?
ROSA: Name are people who you know. Like I told you before we went like. That yeah, I absolutely ******* expect. With it’s like whatever form the state retaliation we expected would come. I expected them to stand up first because I thought they. Kind of wanted somebody to.
UNKNOWN: Stick their head.
ROSA: Above the power pit and try something had been done. For ages. That is literally what has always happened with the struggle when it’s pushed forward by by revolutionaries and no. The comrades, of course, don’t get a *******. Saying whether that that they are challenged like that, it it does, ask them to step up. To the plate. It asks them to be serious about the things they’ve been saying, but that has never been the case in a revolutionary. Ever did a ******* referendum among their. Comrades to say, do you mind if? Like try to push the struggle. Forward and you will. You will of course be required to. Show solidarity and stuff. You know that this never happened, isn’t what happened now and it’s wild. I just don’t think that they wanted to see another revolutionary maybe. Or maybe they think it’s that we’re saying something, or they think something about themselves based. On the fact that it’s. They did it. On them we had a lot very. Little to lose. Why the **** do you think anybody? Would do this. Like I said, we could have just been like any other anarchist YouTuber who we value the ******* contribution of. We’ve never said otherwise. Aaron Jones talking tons of leftist. You know, content graders, leftish content creators you know in the UK, we’re very we’re not hostile at all to them, so of course we don’t think less of somebody than not having literally put their life and liberty on the line. And I don’t know whether it. Is that petty kind of ohh well they. You know, probably think we’re better than. They’re better than them like so. I don’t wanna help.
ELLIS: One of the reasons for that disunity.
ROSA: You do now if that’s your response, but.
ELLIS: One of one of the reasons for leftist unity is that we don’t. We we don’t say everybody has their place in the revolution, even if all it is is posting left is memes on social media and spreading. The word that way everybody. Plays their role in the revolution. The only the only thing the only choice you’ve gotta make is which side you’re gonna be on.
UNKNOWN: You know what?
ELLIS: No, everybody you there there is no sitting on the fence.
ROSA: That’s the thing.
ELLIS: Do you know what I mean?
ROSA: It’s central to the politics that we’re mental share. You know, even ******* lives are meant to get this. That silence isn’t neutral like insert endless ******* quotes about if you’re neutral in in the you know cases of oppression. You’ve chosen the sliding oppressor. I mean come on.
ROSA: This is how.
ROSA: What the truth is in our awareness. Of our situation, you’re already on the state. Right? Yeah, because it helps them for people not to. Know that’s not your fault.
ELLIS: Right?
ROSA: But once you. Become aware and you don’t talk about it. You don’t. Call it and you don’t even say. This looks really soft as.
UNKNOWN: Hell, and you don’t have to.
ROSA: Associate yourself.
ELLIS: Sure, sure.
CORY: I guess there’s a couple of thoughts that I had while you were talking. The first is like the idea that I think.
ROSA: OK brilliant yeah I.
ROSA: Mean she said all this before so so new stuff.
CORY: I just I think that I think that sometimes the idea, like when somebody might ask like well, why target you? I think that that’s a very online perspective, right? Like if you are active in your day-to-day life, if you’ve been active in the past, that’s not going to necessarily show up on your YouTube feed or your Twitter. Because you know, and so then. Yeah, the fact that you have. Yes, less than 10. 1000 followers isn’t like isn’t relevant to the targeting of the police. To you.
ROSA: That nobody else has said this, at least in the ******* WI. Wouldn’t like to ask. For the rest of the world, you know. I’m going to have to do that, but. Nobody and we’ve. Been asking for months please. Just name us one other person. That they would do this to if they were gonna do it to a self. Declared revolutionary.
ELLIS: Yeah, I mean.
ROSA: Nobody’s given us an answer, and if you. Can’t you know answer that you cannot dismiss that this could be a ******* fit up because we’re anarchist revolutionaries and that means this matters to all of.
ROSA: You you unless you.
ROSA: We’re just never serious. Unless when you post about revolutionaries. It’s larping rather than ever wanting to see.
ELLIS: the things.
ROSA: You again and also one thing. How likely is it? That we will ever see one again if it went like this for us the first time in decades. Somebody tried ******** guys sorry sorry I’m calmer now, but you’ve got to understand, this is literally months. We’ve been raising this alarm. You’ve got to understand. My life was absolutely hellish, and I only existed. Because I believed I could. Make change for other people and then. And then it’s actually had some other reason. But I still. Pursued that part to the fullest I could, because that’s partly what brought us together. I still pursued that only because I had faith that people wanted to see somebody stick their head above the parapet like this, only because I thought we would have some solidarity and my God. If this is how it goes, if we, even if we make it through but no more people really give a ****. You will never see, never see another revolutionary. Try this again because to be honest if they ask me personally. Would it be worth it? What the **** can I say? I tried to kill myself last week and considered actually putting myself potentially in the hands of an enemy in a psychiatric ward yesterday. What the **** do you think I could say? I don’t lie, I would have to tell them the truth and right now I would have to tell them don’t bother because they don’t want change enough. Yeah, I’m sorry, but you know if people, if they haven’t got the sense that this would be the response. I mean, you can find on our website on the about. Page at the top of the. Page I wrote that. Two ******* years ago when it talks about the risk I was taking with this good life, I’d finally found.
ELLIS: Tend to attack a bit and go back to something you were saying earlier about online content and it being a very online view. Yeah, and. Obviously, being an illegal list activist for most of my life. A lot of my activism can’t be put online on social media.
ROSA: Exactly, yeah, I mean you’re in prison afterwards, so you’re.
ELLIS: Yeah, I mean it, it’s only I mean to be honest, I’ve I’ve done so bloody much. That a lot of it just fades into memory. You know what I? Mean and it’s only now that I like a few days ago when I started writing this thing. This statement that we we’re gonna put out that I actually started remembering things that I’ve done. Do you know what I mean? And it’s yeah, it’s. Like I said, because it’s a legalist activity, most of my online activity is spent shitposting revolutionary memes and arguing with landlords online and stuff. Do you know what? And like yeah, just generally like harassing capitalists.
ROSA: The fact that I started talking about you know things like Black Rock and riots on my YouTube channel, and it was, you know, I was also starting to work with and then pop up with somebody who has been to riots. A number of riots many times and engaged in action that nobody has for a long time. Because you know, leftists like haven’t been that bold in this country for a long time. He’s, you know, obviously older than me and I’m kind of guessing that some. People have, you know, just looked at that and thought must be true then which is the dumbest thing? In the world. The other thing about whether it’s an online view? And the question of why we’d be targeted? I mean, I’ve written extensively. We both have. About why that would be now, the simplest thing in the world would be to just take up the request. I have been putting out for. Such a long time which is. To just ask us. Because and So what I? Was saying to you of.
ELLIS: I mean, if so, if so, what’s?
ROSA: Course is I’m basically having to imagine what peoples questions and skepticism is based on, because nobody.
ELLIS: It’s obvious you get nearly.
ROSA: Is willing to. Put it forward and allow us to actually respond. We have to anticipate things and then go ohh, they probably do want something that I maybe consciously. Believed we were taking a few. Drinks they would be talked to by. The state at some point they probably. Do only yesterday. Now somebody could have just said. Well, how do I know that you expected state retaliation like you say? Right, somebody could. Have just asked us and this is what I’m. Saying about engaging. What I’m saying is that you cannot say. With a warrant that was. Obtained 2 days before the alleged crime and basis for that warrant. The only basis they’ve ever claimed. Right, you cannot say that it is any way right? Not to at least engage because ohh God, if you can’t dismiss the fact that this could be a fit up, which I don’t know how you ******* could right, then you neither can you ignore that this could be a ******* grave injustice that is a direct attack on your politics. Yeah, on the desire for change. Yeah, on what you apparently approve of and like when you post about old revolutionaries but. What don’t want to see? Now, and you’re. Not even going to give it the time. The consideration to just ask us considering. We have made it. I didn’t realize people would want to anonymously and it. Turns out we were not two questions by that anyway. But eventually I was like fine. If you don’t, if. You wanna be alone? Let’s do that, but if you. Don’t even doing that right, don’t understand. They thought that people that I expected some. I thought they cared. This **** I thought they care about wrongful. Convictions, whoever they. Happened to I certainly thought they would care. That somebody who who. Took this risk in complete obscurity, knowing we would never achieve that much and that we would be in an uphill battle we would be. An unknown factor. When the retaliation came. You know, if I wasn’t so disabled. And so funked up. I would have maybe done things the right way. I could have got more done. Right, I could never have competed with the **** journalists that I am better than every single one. I’ve broken stories at least three times at least a year, sometimes two years before the rest of the mainstream media. It’s it’s. True, I’ve got YouTube videos that would take what? Would take out a. Year 2 years before and I find these articles and I’m like 2 years. Ago this one you know. Take a lot of risk and was already. Aiming squarely at. This distance just. Not for revolution, right? And then.
ELLIS: She gave a platform.
ROSA: To some really.
ELLIS: Two and any can islamicist. Who has No Fear of taking? Action, you know what I mean?
UNKNOWN: Right?
ELLIS: That’s a dangerous mix as far as the state is concerned. Yeah, cause all it takes. I mean I, I do I radicalise ******* everyone I meet you.
ROSA: We it to our our landlords.
ELLIS: Did you know? I radicalized our landlords right hand man the site manager for the site we live at. I radicalised And told him his landlord was taking him for over 5 grand a day and labor value.
ROSA: Paid full rent since.
ELLIS: You know what I? Mean it’s yeah.
ROSA: You know, like and.
ELLIS: Yeah we have.
ROSA: This is after the conversation started with. Him, kind of. Taking out beef that we have with the. Landlord on him, right? And then he went. Sorry I’m sorry. It’s your landlord, like I didn’t expect the conversation to like end on good terms at all, let alone him actually convince him that the man’s being exploited Ellis is an incredible advocate. I wasn’t an I wasn’t a revolutionary when. I met I wasn’t. In a kiss when I met him. Now if anybody is. Confused by the age gap in my attraction. To him, just listen to him. For a ******* while. He’s been let off the leash now in terms of offering his own post, that Boomer still won’t ******* touch Twitter, but he follows the mustard and you see them and it will not make sense for long. It will not not make sense for long. It will make total ******* sense. Why someone like me would just ******* love this man. Right and I am his ******* wife I. Can attest that there is. Absolutely nothing about his sexual aberrations that indicate. An inclination like this offense implies just nothing, literally nothing. The complete opposite. Like yeah, it’s and like I said, to be honest with the way. I am with how? How much I? ******* hate. These kind of. People, if I found a single. Reason not to trust him in a even with a single reason in a moment of. Well I know would be madness. I could have killed him. The fact he’s breathing is that he, I mean. I told.
ELLIS: When when the police rang me, when they charged rose with threats to kill.
ROSA: This is what I was getting to with. Sorry, I got the story trying.
ELLIS: they called me here.
ROSA: To kill him by suicide.
ELLIS: They called me here and I later found out it was police constable that called me. He told me he was a Chief Inspector and he also said that. He wanted to kill me. These were his first words were. Hi I’m Chief Inspector. Something or other? And your wife just said that she wants to kill you. Do you want to send me a statement? The victim as the victim? Yeah, that that was what they said over the phone as soon. As I picked it up, yeah.
ROSA: And when they told me that that’s what they’ve done.
ELLIS: And I my immediate reaction was what the **** have you done to my wife? What have you said? To drive her to this point because the last time I saw her, I was outside your neck with my my tongue. Down her throat. Yeah, what the **** are you? Talking about. There, there’s no way there’s the only way that Rosie would want to kill me was it would be if you ******* ********* had persuaded her that these allegations were somehow true. Yeah, and. I mean, The thing is, if you persuaded me that these allegations were somehow true about Rosie, yeah, I’d ******* kill her too.
UNKNOWN: Yeah, yes.
ROSA: Right?
ELLIS: That threat to kill is credible is what I said to him that threat to kill is credible, the same as my threat to kill. Her is credible.
CORY: I just don’t believe that she actually did it, yeah?
ELLIS: Yeah exactly yeah, absolutely. And what I said to him is right. I’m coming down there now and I’m coming to pick up the wife.
ROSA: Yeah, yeah, The thing is. When they told me that they called him and told him. This my instant reaction, just like instantly noticing and pointing out why they had. Me arrested me for threats to kill and lied about my words in the 1st place which. Was to somehow tried. To put it on, record that it looked like I believed them. For a moment. Which they won’t be able to. Do now. Because they just humiliate themselves with that. Specific TV buying like I explained but.
ELLIS: There’s also the dates that we discovered the other day, yeah?
ROSA: Yeah, we’ll get to that in a second. I just want as soon as they told me that they called him and told him this. I did the same thing and I said. You trying to ******* kill him by suicide? How do you think somebody would feel like they’ve got extra safeguarding duties around suicide in these kind of investigations after like a number of like this, local police police force different powers. There’s a story about like 20 families that were wrongly identified and investigated for this. And like so I don’t know if these safeguards were put in, it was because of a computer virus, which is, you know, could be what?
UNKNOWN: OK.
ROSA: This is. But I don’t believe it is judging from the completely locked up police conduct at every. Stage of this as well.
CORY: Right, it just seems so fabricated.
ELLIS: But the other one is.
ROSA: The fact that nobody brought a claim will claim.
ELLIS: They’ve come out with some really suspicious behavior.
UNKNOWN: To believe it’s.
ROSA: True means that I don’t understand how anybody can possibly ignore this and not say at least that the state has questions to answer here. I don’t understand I found it absolutely staggering and like I said, it’s not what I ******* expected. And if it’s what I knew that I’d get, I would never have risked the life that I’d finally enjoy living with Ellis, I would never have ******* done that. But the the. About this first thing I want to say it was.
ROSA: OK.
ROSA: Before you talk. About the dates. This thing with the warrant. Frustratingly, we could have noticed this ages ago that warrants been, you know, up on the wall for months in an envelope and cut ********, but you know. Every time we looked at it.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ROSA: It’s only.
ROSA: Yeah, I mean. Like you know it it it didn’t seem relevant. At the time, but. Obviously it was only when we were interviewed. I was meant to be interviewed on the same day Ellis was and the day that they tried to section me, but obviously my reaction to just the discussion with the. Lawyer describing the evidence they claimed to have. You know was triggering enough to to **** me up. I had a big outburst and.
ELLIS: They’ve postponed it.
ROSA: Yeah, that that was actually after I had already assaulted an officer by the. Way, and I totally did do that. Like didn’t do that.
ELLIS: Very proud of that. You know, assaulting the police very.
ROSA: Proud of that.
ELLIS: It should be, yeah.
UNKNOWN: You know?
ROSA: What the police is having somebody arresting somebody for assault on a police officer and having them react like a captured guerrilla fighter? Reeling off half of an unwritten manifesto and declaring their actions to be right and part of a much bigger. Like they had no ******* idea what to do with it. Every single one of them backed off to the wall and was silent. They have no idea how to react and. I think and. It’s precisely because they have no idea if. Somebody would dare do. That now and I guess I. Guess that’s why no one’s taking this. Seriously, they don’t. Think anyone would dare do that now? Yeah, we actually we did.
ELLIS: The other one is they also know that my feelings are exactly the same as rose as far as the police. The charges that you know. I mean, as far as I’m concerned in my. Interview with them. When this person sat in front of me this ******* ****, it sat there describing images of *******. Children being abused. And I, I mean to me, that’s ******* disgusting. It’s the it’s their exploitation of those images to get to us. Is only the. Half of it. The fact that they’re willing to exploit those kids, and the fact that that have already been exploited.
ROSA: Good morning.
ELLIS: Yeah, yeah, that is just. ******* beyond evil. You know what I mean and that that drove me to breaking point.
ROSA: It would be on the table.
ELLIS: And because I have PTSD with police that we declared already, yeah, it’s driven by the police. That’s why I did no comment interview. I made a statement, prepared statement, and then there’s no no comment.
ROSA: The other thing that probably unnerves them they probably could imagine interviewing anarchists where they both like on ideological grounds doing local. Interview or that they both talk to a limited extent. It probably did. Unnerve them a bit that one of them was. Prepared to talk to a limited extent. I am *******. Done now for reasons we’ll get on to later, but to have the other one say no. I don’t think I should say anything at all in case I have a reaction, probably together.
UNKNOWN: Right, right?
ROSA: You know, so when you did actually say something other than no comment, they stopped.
ELLIS: Yeah, I mean yeah, they. Did I mean it wasn’t like I just found? You know what the ****? Are you doing I I? Well, what the **** are?
ROSA: You do it you.
ELLIS: ******* animal get the **** out of here. I need a break now I wanna talk to a ******* solicitor and the pair of them. Hurriedly left the room because I do have previous for violence against the police, and I do have PTSD driven by police. Do you know what I mean so?
ROSA: Whole system prison officers.
ELLIS: The chances of me attacking them was. Pretty ******* high.
ROSA: Police, you know it’s right. I mean I. I don’t know it’s being mentioned, but Alice is being in prison a number of times. You know he’s being put in hospital by cops. You know this PTSD around police? You know he’s you know was sort of traveler like.
ELLIS: I’ve fought cops on a few occasions.
ROSA: He had family. At the Buffalo Beanfield right, you know. He’s probably has a long way existing hatred for cops.
ELLIS: I was in prison at the time. I was I was I was on the convoy at the time. Yeah, and my boss and my girlfriend were at the Battle of the Beanfield at Savernake Forest. Yeah, and at the time I had to watch it on television from in prison. Yeah, I watch.
ROSA: Police waiting in and battering women, children, men just.
ELLIS: I watch, yeah. I watched my wife get ******* battered. I watched my home getting destroyed on the news, sat, eating my lunch. In prison. You know what I? Mean I ******* hate the police so much man but **** the states **** police, **** **** up, that’s the.
ROSA: And the reason we, the police are all. On record, they can’t deny them.
ELLIS: Only way to go.
UNKNOWN: It’s like I said.
ROSA: To them I.
UNKNOWN: Didn’t believe you.
ROSA: Before, because I don’t believe cops, but you’ve now lied about me, provably because in the fact that you can’t prove it and I’ve got witnesses that say I said something.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ROSA: Why in God’s? Name would I believe you now. Yeah, so when I start looking in the thing I was gonna say the warrant which needs to come before the interview is obviously people are. You know, if they doubt this, they’re not. Really thinking about. The fact we’re. Obviously we’re gonna have to prove everything we’re saying now. In a court but.
UNKNOWN: You know?
ROSA: I guess. People might think, well, how do we? How do we know that the allegation that the police say that the basis of the warrant happened on the 19th right? Because otherwise it could be before the. 17th and then. We’re like like if you start, if you think we’re lying, just say so and we’ll, you know, actually engage and challenge that. But also we’ll have to prove this in court. And also also we phoned our solicitor and told them about this. Fine that we only noticed today. You know a few Thursday. Which interesting is? I I’ve said a number of times on social media has just died. Both of them. Are Mastodon too. Which is really weird since Thursday and I got a message from somebody today because I linked them into a thread and they said. I haven’t seen anything from you since Thursday.
ELLIS: Yeah, it’s like our social media’s been shut down. Yeah, since we posted a picture of the warrant that was made out two days before the alleged crime took place.
ROSA: And Sarah, my oh, that Lauren and.
ELLIS: Yeah, right right yeah.
ROSA: Explain innovation is now the other thing to bear in mind which is. Could have been achieved by the simplest thing of a policeman reporting a tweet of ours the way any Twitter user. But but immediately upon my release from the 12 hours that day, first time we checked with her, we were suspended for a week. Somebody sabotaged our SOS and we had to put it out for a whole. Week to less than 300 followers in. Our on our backup account. Now you know. But anyway, we have spoken to our lawyer and verbally confirmed with him that he. That no date on which images were accessed, which is what they said the warrant was based on, based on an automated flagging system that recognizes things about an image, and then they obtain a warrant based on it. Now first of all, yeah, even if the warrant was got in a. Normal time frame yeah? Which is that would have meant a two day turn around. Because they said to us, which we only learned once being interviewed that the first date the images were accessed were the 19th. They say that there was another one, but they didn’t put that in that date to me in my interview, but that’s that’s say that they still are gonna maintain that that’s the 21st. We’re rated on the 23rd no the 22nd, so that means that three days elapsed between apparently a flag on an automated system and a physical raid and seizure of the device.
ELLIS: Right?
ROSA: I need.
UNKNOWN: To get a.
ROSA: Freedom of Information request. I was like this can’t be normal like they can’t nothing that happens this fast. Not in the interest of the ruling. Class, you know? And our lawyer was like you don’t need an FOI like I’ve you know represented all kinds of cases, including these. It’s usually months that people are accessing this stuff before this stuff is actually like from the point in which they first do being flagged and then actually being picked up. It’s categorically not normal. The other thing he’s confirmed? To us now is. That they have never put to the state. And bear in mind they may change this because they’ve changed some of the things, but he’s confirmed with us in the last few days that they have never put a date prior to the 19th. Certainly not prior to the to 17th on which images were accessed and therefore the basis of that warrant could have been obtained.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ROSA: Now the thing they did change, which was really interesting and like and and here comes the kind. Of question over lawyers. Maybe integrity but damn sure ability to help with the way legal aid’s being gutted like. I mean, obviously we were aware of those malign consequences of austerity on legal aid, like obviously it’s part of the whole reason we. Oppose this system. But my God when you want to get rid of your lawyer. Because even though he backed. Me that on what I said that I didn’t say I’d kill. Others he still. Came back with like system justification of. I’m sure they thought it was reasonable and I. Was like dude, we can’t have somebody.
ROSA: Who is gonna like?
ROSA: Afford so much benevolence to to the. State in our case.
ELLIS: No, just. Turns out that threats to kill in the UK shows a maximum 10. Year prison sentence.
ROSA: Hey Kendra. Yeah, and you think?
ELLIS: Wow, they’re they’re talking about 10 year sentence.
ROSA: The other thing I will point out here is. By trying to section me they almost. Managed to remove. My liberty in a way that could have. Been made permanent with no judicial. Process all they need. Once your section is adopted to say they need to stay sectioned and you will never get out, they almost took my liberty for ******* forever and people voted together anyway. the point is in in. The in the intro. You with me this suddenly claimed some not new evidence. Aspects of the evidence like dates and times that they never put to us and we know. That they never put to. Us despite 1 aspect which weirdly does show up in the lawsuit, but we’ll explain why. We just don’t believe. That that we were ever told this this thing so. Some people who have been following. This, along or or are now and have seen. But there was a lovely. Week, a lovely early week. Where we thought it was some particular local flash who did this. I mean, Ellis always thought this was a possibility. It was my favorite or not favorite.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ROSA: I mean obviously not favoured and that’s why we were so eager to believe this Nazi theory. Once we found some threats to like dropping in ship with police and they were clear they didn’t care if it was something that that that he had done or. Haven’t gone through like. Maybe it you know it was. Them, and that is obviously. Verbal this is the only reason I kept talking to the police at all and spoke to them and that stopped my interview because I was presenting this evidence. Now, the only reason we accepted that theory. Was because we were. Told I was told to by the lawyer. Because you, you’re. Told what the police are going to put. To you by. The lawyer and then you have the interview and the. Police put those things to you. They put to us the times for these image accesses as 4:00 AM and 5:00 AM. So it was reasonable to think given that. The these these particular local fascists are are like properly local, the rest of their kind of fascist gang from Wales were all lethal, eating in the area around those days. And so anybody who wasn’t local but had the requisite skills would have been in. The area to. Do it and if they were going to do that, it would have been in the middle of the night. Right, no, not surprising that that they might **** *** halfway through and come back and finish it the night after next. Given that we would have been sleeping. In the next bloody. Room, so anyway, that’s why we accepted this theory because we believed that the claim was these images were. Most at 4:00 and 5:00 AM now in my interview. They suddenly said as I was giving them this defense, which we believe to be true and like. It’s really unfortunate that we put out incorrect information, but we’ve made every effort to explain our reasoning, and there’s plenty of proof that this is not a change in defense and that we spoke. Previously before that week about believing it was the state, but just plenty of it. And you know, people should have just bloody asked if they were doubting that. But the reason we that it became apparent to. Me that it was actually the state, like Iris. Thought well they suddenly said because it seems this you know, albeit accidentally effective, but a somewhat effective defence. They sought to evade that by suddenly claiming. Well, actually you know that those things just access at 9:00 AM, so they couldn’t come in. During the night I was. Like who are you talking? About, there’s never been put to us now. The reason why I am just convinced that we were never told that is I remember the ******* conversation, but also every alarm in the House goes off to tell others to give me my medication at 9:00 o’clock.
ELLIS: At 9:00
ROSA: I didn’t remember to say this because. I don’t remember taking. My medication, which is why alarms. Go off to tell Alice. To do it for me and stuff.
ELLIS: Yeah, every morning 9:00 o’clock the whole house wakes up because every alarm goes off.
ROSA: But anyway.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ELLIS: The dogs go crazy so you know what I mean there’s.
ROSA: There’s no way Elias could do anything in this small caravan without me knowing about it at 9.
ELLIS: There’s no way.
ROSA: O’clock he would have.
ELLIS: It’s ******* ridiculous.
ROSA: Just given me ******* pills I would be awake drinking coffee that you’ve made me. That’s impossible now the other bit everything for this. In what aspect of the base of evidence previously? Mind that they introduced at this time that it was completely new to us and clearly brought up to evade this accidentally effective defence was they said. Also, it can’t be people during the night, because actually that list of search terms and they’re talking here about you know, like a list of the kind of. Search terms that a ********** would use when looking for this stuff. OK, are you talking like a Word document with a list of words? Nothing that could flag their system. That would be a basis for that warrant. So even though they’ve suddenly changed and said it couldn’t be them during. The night because that was created in March, right? Even though they said that that couldn’t be the basis for this warrant at all, so so it’s that. Isn’t explained that way. The other thing is. We were on OK. A lot of people might think this weird. I know that people in our life thought it was a bit weird at the time, but we were basically on video call almost 24/7 at.
ELLIS: It was 24 so.
ROSA: It it yeah it was.
ELLIS: Eight we even slept with the cameras on.
ROSA: Like my life was not great and I was very isolated in a home where I was not very comfortable and you know, working on activism was literally my life. The only reason I wanted to carry on with life so when I found somebody prepared to work with me somebody I also really liked and I was the one that hit on him. By the way, you know? Yeah it it was amazing to spend time with them. My point is there’s no way you could have done anything like that and they factually to this day have not claimed any images were accessed at the date at the time anyway. They just say that this Word document like somehow existed was created at date, yeah?
CORY: The supposed.
ROSA: So he couldn’t have been doing any of that. They’re not even. Claiming that he was. Looking at the images, but it it. Just wouldn’t make no sense. Also it was locked down I’m sure. That we won’t. Be alone in thinking couples who used video chat or you know particular purposes and you. Know that’s just like I said. From the start. To now, there is nothing about the sex we have or what he finds attractive, but in any way indicates this. You know, just at all I mean to be honest, like I have to do a ******* caveat. Access the Internet. I am not saying that everybody who is into the the side of us. And M is. An abusive character, but it is undeniable that abusive characters operate in that scene, because if they’re able to still get something out of that with consenting involved. It’s a safe place to try and pursue those pleasures. Don’t tell me it doesn’t happen. You know I’ve met one when I tried it the other way around, and a little bit of a little bit of a filter matching.
UNKNOWN: OK.
ROSA: Mechanism because like I. Said the abuse by a lot of people there is. I am very ******* careful like everything about me when I am trying to seem attractive. There’s some. It is designed to put off anybody who might be interested in abusing or oppressing me. That means even trying to put off people who might want to do that and they’re not abusive, but just into that, you know, not king shaving, but I want to be like I wasn’t prepared to take that chance and it’s a it’s a filter mechanism that I employed a long time ago. Because I clearly ******* had teams. Like I said, I was blood in the water to these monsters for a long *******. Time in my life. And so even though it’s not. Even a ******* thing that’s like. A feature about our sex life. Now the way, the manner in which I hit on him was. a kind. Of ****** kind of. Way that that nobody who’s into kids. Which is the pinnacle of the exert of like control and everything over somebody who don’t? Can’t consent nobody who is into that would be into being a sub to an adult woman, you know. But that’s the least of the ******* reasons not to mention all his friends.
ELLIS: I mean, it’s a bit of a. It’s very paradox.
ROSA: Trust him his. Kids trust him. His son has publicly put out statements what anybody is doing.
CORY: Yeah, and so that.
ROSA: Staying payment at this point is literally inexcusable. I am sorry that I have that it’s. Got to the point where. I am morally condemning those people. I am sorry. But that is not my ******* fault, is it?
ELLIS: Yeah, see, I know it’s like you know. An anti authoritarian being into authoritarian women, but it’s yeah.
ROSA: Let me know what happens. In our politics that this is The thing is the yeah. Yeah, no, I mean it.
ELLIS: They’re wearing a police uniform, then I’ll. Just ******* fat.
CORY: Right, yeah, that’s right. Instant turn off.
ROSA: He likes the librarians. And the pencil skirts, not the book. And like teams and cheerleaders and outfits, you know.
ELLIS: Librarians, nurses yeah man, yeah, bring it on.
CORY: Yeah, so you mentioned that your son put out a statement.
ELLIS: Sorry, what was that?
CORY: Alright, you mentioned that your son put out a statement on on Twitter, so I thought maybe we should discuss that a little bit.
ELLIS: Yeah, absolutely yeah yeah.
ROSA: It’s easy to find if you wanna like talk about. It while looking at. It so in in the yeah on our profile there’s the pinned tweet which is temporarily the one about this interview. But if you look at. The QT that’s. The oh hang on.
ELLIS: Uh, my my sons trans. And I I’ve supported him in his trans lifestyle since he was 12 years old and decided to be a boy. You know, I absolutely support him. His online name now it’s red, which I quite like, but I also have another friend called Red so it does get confusing. But yeah, yeah Jake, he goes by. And yeah that’s yeah. Yeah, it’s.
ROSA: Yeah, so I just want to find. See, I can only find like other people can’t find our tweets right now, but also.
ELLIS: Yeah, basically it. It says that like you. Know growing up. He had, like you know, he had sleepovers with his with his friends. This when he was when when he was a girl. yeah girl, sleep both.
ROSA: You have kids, have friends or your kids.
ELLIS: You’ve had I’ve had I’ve had I’ve. I’ve I’ve got loads of friends with pets.
ROSA: Babies live with you when they couldn’t live with their families.
ELLIS: I’ve got loads of friends with pets, yeah.
ROSA: Nothing until all this ever happened. No child has ever expressed that that they felt uncomfortable. Nobody who knows it with. Us shouting so. Loudly, we’re innocent. If there was anybody who believed otherwise. Don’t you think you would have heard them, don’t you think they would have been in the comments saying don’t listen to these people? You definitely like. That don’t listen to them, but nobody. ‘s done that. So what the hell? Are people just finding silence on?
CORY: Yeah, this the thing that really gets that sticks out to me about your your situation is that there is no victim coming forward. This is all claims by police. Yeah and cops lie like we can’t trust.
ROSA: From the start, yeah, I mean the question like keep asking myself is are.
CORY: What they say so?
UNKNOWN: You a CB or not like Jesus.
ROSA: ******* Christ, you know it’s not like it’s been the. Only it’s not like our case is the only one in. Which I’ve said the. Words, unless like I said real, but you know those people got angry at that. Unless like a non cop. Person back something up. Whatever a cop says, assume it’s a ******* like take, uh and yeah, the thing. I was saying that about. In that that instance was Chris Carver who was killed not long ago by Met Police. Initially they claimed that. There was a pursuit, they admitted.
ROSA: That well, they.
ROSA: Claimed to admit that that was an accident and it was a rental car and they were. Viewing who they thought still had the car. Turns out there was no ******* pursuit at all and they admitted as such later, just like after the Bristol riots they. Admitted that no police officers were injured, just.
ROSA: Like how many?
ROSA: ******* times.
UNKNOWN: That it’s.
ROSA: Happened and I have. Said we both said don’t trust the *******. Cop it’s like normal ******* people aren’t saying a thing.
ELLIS: The other one is saying.
ROSA: Now, I seriously thought that our political community didn’t need reminding, let alone it. Would need reminding again and again, let alone.
ROSA: Would still be.
ROSA: Silent, I just it’s baffling to me.
ELLIS: I think I mean one one that gets me is I, I think. I was gonna say I feel sorry for the local cops, but I really ******* don’t. You know what I? Mean I I’ve been quite happy.
ROSA: Hated every interaction.
UNKNOWN: Though yeah.
ELLIS: Yeah, but. I think they don’t know that this is a state fit up. They’ve not been told. They’re just like you know, they’ve just been told that something’s been flagged on the computer. You know what I mean? Yeah, and they’re investigating it like a normal case and then all of a sudden it turns all ******* political on them. And they don’t know what the **** to do. I’m I’m even even to the point where I think at Rose’s interview in Cardigan. I personally think that there was either Home Office or MI six in the building at the time. Well.
ROSA: I mean. Like there was a bloke in my interview. What wasn’t present any of the former exchanges also more talkative than the woman who conducted the interview with Ellis. We’ve never seen before. He was also also the man who had called me the they had called me a number. The times and twice before claimed that I would have to be interviewed for all of this, like by the cop assaulted and I was like that seems like a wild. Conflict of interest. You know, we told our lawyer and they laughed and said, like obviously we’re not gonna let him do that now.
ELLIS: Right?
ROSA: An example of the failure of our.
ROSA: Lawyer is that the cop didn’t.
ROSA: Try to do that on that day, but the. Although it didn’t like bring up the fact. That they’d like attempted to. Do that which. You know, is a psychological tactic. It’s it’s. Tucked up and not normal and it’s just like with even though he backed me on what I actually said so proves that I was innocent of the threats to kill. He came back with some justification for for them having made that arrest and in my eyes I was like, well, surely in our case we can’t have somebody who’s still gonna afford so much benevolence to the state in a situation like this, like. We really can’t, we tried. To replace him now, I knew this that legal aid was gutted. Oh my God, when you call the Law Society. Which is in the. UK is the body that manages access to. These things and other matters. But you know, private legal professionals as well, but but they manage access to legal aid and we called them because we couldn’t find an alternative. We live in like we’re all mid Wales and even our legal aid to this is from Bristol. Couldn’t come and represent us because legal aid wouldn’t cover the. Travel costs. And legal aid also only allows for work literally done inside a police station or a court.
ELLIS: Yeah, you can’t have a you can’t go. To your solicitor enough. For a meeting in the office.
ROSA: Yeah, we were lucky guy.
ELLIS: You can’t, you can’t. Even really have a phone call there really.
ROSA: Yeah I asked him to get the recorded interview with Ellis.
ROSA: To check whether his notes were right about 9:00 AM. I told him that 3–3 weeks ago now and he wouldn’t. He hasn’t done it. The response after a week to my cause I told him at the interview I now can’t send this evidence about the fish because I no longer believe it’s them. Right we need. To talk, I need to get clarity on these new things they’ve mentioned before I. Send you anything. Didn’t hear anything for a week and then he. Responded just reiterating the police demand for evidence. Not taking into account anything I said. But anyway, when we tried to replace him because. This is after this. Now why did we stick with him? Because when we called the Law Society they couldn’t offer Ellis an alternative, but. If he wanted it, they. Did have the Samaritan suicide hotline to hand?
ELLIS: Yeah, we haven’t got another solicitor for you, but here’s the suicide hotline.
CORY: Yeah, that’s not very ******* helpful.
ELLIS: That is the Lord’s driver. Not really, not. Which is why we’re stuck with this solicitor the best I can do is radicalizing on a like on a ******* crash radicalizing when when I’m eating every single time.
ROSA: Which is why sharing things about.
ROSA: You know what I?
ELLIS: Mean, and that’s what I’ve been trying. So it’s crash radicalising you know?
ROSA: He was.
ROSA: He was surprised when when he heard, ever say that that.
ROSA: He used to be on.
ROSA: Because he’s disabled, but it was taken away and I remember at the time going my friend, if you were surprised the disabled people are having their benefits taken away. In the UK. I I’m not surprised that you are skeptical of our claims.
ELLIS: Those personal independence type.
ROSA: You know what I mean like but. the thing I was saying about the lawyer. Situation is not only is it you know all this suffering, only ******* worth it. Not because we’re off to validate. But because we understand. That anything we sought to achieve by sticking by trying to do this kind of. Agitation for revolution that hasn’t been done in. A long time achieves nothing. If nothing’s done with that contribution, martyrdom doesn’t exist. If nobody will stand up and say, yeah, they will remark for something I believe in. It you become nothing, so it’s not about validation. I want somebody to see what we did and say well done and you know it’s about actually any of this ******* having Matt. At all, having risked a good life, I have finally found for anything.
ROSA: I’ve been, I’ve been.
ELLIS: Desperately trying to come to the to a resolution with the idea. That a possible outcome of this is that. I’m convicted of a sex crime that I didn’t commit, and more than likely murdered in in prison in about 2 years time. Yeah, I’ve been trying to.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ROSA: The thing is, it’s not.
ELLIS: Come to terms with this. Yeah, because it is a real possibility, yeah? And I have no problem with giving up my life. For the fun. To give up my life. In such a waste of a way. With nothing coming out of it other than the verification of the left for a crime that I did not commit. That is. The absolute antithesis of what I thought. That’s that’s the total opposite of what I thought I thought I was going to be killed by cops. I thought I was going to be taken down. You know what I mean? Yeah, because that’s what I wanna ******* do.
CORY: Right?
ELLIS: You know what? I mean.
ROSA: The biggest win.
ELLIS: This this.
ROSA: That the state has.
ROSA: Got against anybody, anybody who talks about revolution, anonymously or otherwise. The biggest ******* win they’ve achieved in a long time was handed to them because they’ve made people who tried doing this for the first time go. ****, I actually regret that. And like I said, do you think you’ll ever see? Anyone else you? May not think we. Were very good at it.
ROSA: But you’ll never see anybody do.
ROSA: It better because nobody will try again after this. And the other thing. It’s not just about whether it feels worth it to us, or whether you give a **** that.
ELLIS: I don’t regret anything.
ROSA: We will have. Wasted our lives. If you feel like there’s nothing you can. Do you are forgetting about? Why this thing? Works we need clearly. A public interest lawyer. A lawyer that can. Do more than. Talk to us while we’re in a police station and a ******* court. Our case is clearly too complex for that and we will be. Doomed if that’s what we’re stuck with. Eating with this fine even still even still let alone the fact you’re raising awareness of this, which means sharing the post, ideally with some kind of comment that says that you think people should take this seriously.
ELLIS: Every time we. Get embarrassed that.
ROSA: And it looks really SUS. If not saying you believe. Right, because it has more credibility. if other people are saying you should look at this. Too right? So yeah, hopefully. That’s something good. The reason why you share that is not only because otherwise all this was for ******* nothing, but because it’s. The only way. a solicitor. That might agree to do this. Pro bono might see it. These are very material. Consequences for our chances of ******* surviving this.
CORY: Yeah for sure. Is it is there in in the pay?
ELLIS: Yeah, yeah.
CORY: Is there like a division of regions the way like in the US you have to have a license to practice law in individual states, so where you are.
ELLIS: No, not not really. Not not really. I mean, you know you have the individual nations of Wales, England and Scotland and all of that.
ROSA: Yeah, what? What are you actually asking is better answered by by saying if we are relying on legal aid. We are restricted to lawyers who can afford to travel to us, which means, well, we’ve tried to find another one. We’ve got one guy. That’s the only one, and when we tried to get an alternative they told us to call suicide hotline. The only way we can get anyone from another district or or another area which they are allowed to do. But the only reason the only way they will is if they are a private legal practitioner that can afford to do. This for free. As a charity in trust. So yeah, yes they can, but only if. If the Pro burner and that crucially.
UNKNOWN: OK.
ROSA: Relies on visibility.
ELLIS: Yeah, otherwise we’ll be tired.
CORY: Yeah, well, hopefully we can. We can reach somebody that can put you in contact. A private lawyer that can. Or solicitor that can.
ROSA: Yeah, yeah, that would be good.
ROSA: About like we we got kind of mixed up calling some lawyers and they were actually lawyers that take cases against the police after investigations cause you can’t sue the police while you’re still being investigated. But when we spoke to them they said we had a really solid. Case against the police and. That we would likely get damages.
ROSA: Now if they can. See that like.
ROSA: I just like say yeah anyway, it’s baffling what I can do right now is.
ELLIS: Yeah, yeah.
ROSA: Tweet, tweet the threads that the thread and the tweet that read did. Because I’m I’m on the right page. So if you want to talk about his son’s statement now. We could do that.
CORY: Sure, yeah, yeah, let’s talk about that.
ELLIS: Yeah, yeah, that’s that.
ROSA: So it’s right here.
CORY: We’re running over an hour now, so.
ELLIS: Sorry for the coughing, late.
CORY: I don’t have a ton of. Time left but I. I do want to talk about.
ELLIS: Right?
ROSA: Yeah, there is some retweeted, so it should be at the top of the just under the pins.
ELLIS: Yeah, go ahead.
ROSA: Ohh I mean OK I can, I can read it if it’s gonna be OK.
ELLIS: Yeah, just read it.
ROSA: Hang on.
UNKNOWN: Just gonna try.
ROSA: This just in case.
UNKNOWN: Read it OK.
ROSA: Sorry my computer is.
ROSA: Is being really slow? I mean, we actually think. Somebody actually slow computers that that day.
ELLIS: Yeah, that’s the. Other ones
ROSA: Because there was some we’ll have.
ELLIS: When we came back.
ROSA: To talk about another time.
ELLIS: From the police station, Rosa wanted to access another account because her Twitter account had closed while she was at the police station. It it was it shut down.
UNKNOWN: Oh yeah.
ELLIS: So she tried to, she tried to access her other account and couldn’t remember the password which is on. Her main PC and she looked it up on the main PC and it asked her to change to the user account. Which means another account had accessed it, which would have been a guest account and there are no guests, and there are no other accounts on my computer.
UNKNOWN: Right?
ELLIS: So while we were away, someone accessed our password list.
ROSA: Alice was at home when. They called him and told him.
ELLIS: As a guest.
ROSA: That I wanted to kill him like but he. Was only at home for like 3 hours.
ROSA: There was a huge period.
ROSA: Of time, at least five hours, both sides, when we were both out, but. I have just tweeted it. At you, so you should be able to find it far easier. It’s not turning up on the timeline. The tweet with the relevant stuff about read statement.
CORY: OK, I’ll just bring this up.
ROSA: So there’s a screenshot and then it also quote tweets of Fred. Which you’ll have to scroll. Back to the top of yeah.
CORY: Here we go OK. So it’s got the. Quote Tweet I’m going to bring. This up. On the screen.
ELLIS: Yeah, we don’t. I’m so proud of my boy Jake man. Wow, what a.
ROSA: Joke fact that he calls me his stepmom is like the most amazing thing in the world. Like like I said. I have the kind of like the fact that I have a family at all like which is how I refer to. Alice and the Dogs is like. I ******* never like. Genuinely, that was never gonna happen to me in anybody’s estimation. The fact that I have somebody’s stepson is amazing, and it yeah, anyway? So it’s yeah.
ELLIS: Anyway, yeah, the train.
CORY: Yeah, so so we’re we’re looking at the Reds Twitter thread and he’s he says yes. I’m talking about this again. It needs to be ******* talked about. What’s happening with my dad and my stepmom is getting ignored. Although I am aware that nobody followed me. For seriousness, that’s what you’re ******* getting because. This is important. And my father, the man who raised me to be the person I am, and the one person I probably trust more than anyone else in my life, is being accused of the police by of being a pedophile. Having grown up with him and brought my friends around all my life, you’d think I’d ******* notice if he was and I could tell you with 100% certainty that this is a ******* lie. It’s a lie so that they have grounds to arrest him and possibly my stepmom, as well As for being non non anonymous revolutionaries online. It’s far too early for me to accurately put all the information that’s public into this thread, but please read this and read what Rosa and my. Dad are saying. So essentially, red is saying that like yeah. They grew up their whole life around you yeah, and brought friends around and like.
ROSA: I spoke to rent.
CORY: yeah yeah yeah.
ELLIS: And I was just a dad. You know what? I mean, I was just ******* dad like yeah.
ROSA: The thing is, is I? You know you can tell I properly love red and I spoke to him in direct private messages and I said, listen. You know, given that, there’s nobody you know claiming that he’s done anything to him that it’s the police saying he’s accessed images which they’ve detected by police labs doing an investigation of computers which were cleared when they were. Given that there’s it’s just them saying it. The only person who could make me. Change my mind and distrust him. Is you right now? If you were to tell me that you had any suspicion, like if you if you feel like there’s any reason I shouldn’t trust him, that this might be true, like and you told me I would be on your ******* so. Right and he he just said I am one. 100 just like you said, it’s 100. Percent a lie, he said. It was 100 he 100. Percent trusted his dad. yeah yeah. And he’s telling right now that he’s going to lose him.
UNKNOWN: He’s terrified he’s gonna lose. His dad.
ROSA: He should care just for the fact that a kid is saying my parents are being fit up. For political reasons and I’m scared that.
UNKNOWN: He’s gonna go.
ROSA: To prison and get killed people should. Care just for that reason alone.
ELLIS: He’s a strong boy, darling.
ROSA: I know, but he’s all famous.
ELLIS: I know, I know, I know, I know he’s had a hard life so far.
ROSA: Wait you for ***** sake.
ELLIS: I know, I know.
ROSA: Anyway, I it’s not. Even these other kids trust him too.
ELLIS: All right?
ROSA: I’ve also spoken to them, but you know, considering they also agree that this is a state fitter for this politics, not all of them are thrilled that we do this. Like you know and.
ELLIS: Yeah, yeah, my stepdaughter really doesn’t like the idea that I. Do this, don’t talk to me.
ROSA: She doesn’t like I.
ROSA: Mean honestly.
ELLIS: But at the same time, roses. Spoken with her and like she’s she said no, there’s no ******* way. I mean this is not my dad.
ROSA: Yeah, I can understand I’m not wanting. To do like a public statement.
ELLIS: That’s where that’s that’s from my. Daughter ******* hates me.
ROSA: Yeah, exactly like she really is like.
ROSA: Super Mad and they haven’t spoken since. Uh, yeah a.
ELLIS: Yes, it’s right here.
ROSA: Little while, but.
ROSA: Like if she wasn’t gonna say something then like. You know, then there’s just nothing to say you know and yeah, and it’s. It’s a it’s a lion and the fact that that literally nobody, not a single person who wasn’t a ******* cop, claims to believe it. It should be enough that the fact that the warrant was got two days before the alleged basis for the warrant is, like, you know, that’s a recent discovery. But honestly, there’s been enough in the public domain for absolutely weeks.
ELLIS: That just throws the whole ******* thing that.
ROSA: And well, yeah, there’s been an increase in attention after that. Fine, but Jesus Christ, I mean Anybody who’s anti cop should be ******* thrilled. To find and to to find some evidence of. Police lying like. That how have they not seized upon it?
UNKNOWN: Yeah, you know and.
ROSA: And I get. That this is hard for those people that we’re relying on support from. Who are sexual victim of sexual abuse? As I’ve said, literally countless times, I am one, that’s why they did this. I shouldn’t have to do much to convince you to condemn a state leveraging sexual trauma like you. Like I have to seek to weaponize me to kill my husband and myself because they hate my politics. You may hate my politics too but you must see how evil that is now. If you can. Accept what I’ve said so far, and at least call it out. If not, say you say or or look into it. Rather, to decide whether you actually believe us, which is understandable, it is triggering, that’s literally. Like I said, the point. With it, but if you can at least just share things you don’t have to fully read the stuff if you’ve already see as anybody should, that this is weird and the states got bloody questions to answer, and that if indeed our theory is right that it is very evil and it is a weaponization of. Of the kind of pain, literally. You live with.
ELLIS: It’s weaponization controller.
ROSA: Imagine imagine it happening to you. I realize it’s hard to engage. With the at the same time, you have more reason than many more reason than many to call this out. And I just employ you to to listen to us and. Do that please.
CORY: Yeah, I think that’s a good place to stop. Thanks so much for letting me.
ROSA: Yeah, thanks so much for giving us this. Chance to be. Heard out and we’re going to watch it on. Playback and see. What was said in the chat and you know, cause I’m sure that we didn’t get around to responding to to things that were put in there and you know that that will really help us like I was saying earlier. We’ve been having to try and guess. What peoples like remaining like uninvolved is based on like what what? Why they’re skeptical and so.
UNKNOWN: Right, right?
ROSA: Or maybe it’s this. This out, because maybe that’s something. It would just, like not only are we willing to answer any question it will really help. Us to see because we. Already know everything like we’re living it because and so therefore we know everything we don’t know necessarily, and because we put so much out there with so much information we don’t know. What we’ve missed our questions. It’s literally a way of helping, and hopefully you know if somehow you still need to know more like just fine, fine, just ask us, but then then you can decide and. And ensure that you’re not on the wrong side of of history here. Like I because of my trauma because of, literally the reasons why it was done to Julian Assange and the reasons why they’re doing it to me. I didn’t defend him strongly enough against. What was revealed to? Be unsubstantiated allegations of sexual abuse. I didn’t.
ELLIS: Sorry, I’ll be hard.
ROSA: I have sincere. Regret about that? And honestly, when it when you when people realize that we are innocent, it’s gonna break their ******* hearts.
ELLIS: That’s what inspired me to ring. Yeah, I’m the criminal. Yeah it was. Julian Assange and WikiLeaks that inspired me to initially ring the International Criminal Court about illegal rendition through Scotland.
ROSA: Which is now proven to happen. By the way, honey, it’s usually not.
ELLIS: Yeah, it was about two years after I called the court and spoke to the chief prosecutor. It was about two years after that that it came out in the media at that airport. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
ROSA: That’s the thing I mean, I did a thread. That’s the other thing I was asking questions. And yes, my hands are ****** you. But we’ve already. Got a thread. Of it, like with the answer probably. We’re happy to expand on. But like if you just say ‘why would you be talking?’ I’ve literally got a thread on that like I can. Give you that. And then any further questions you have, I’ll. Answer those if you say. That if you notice any gaps, thank you for pointing out answer them. In the future you. Know it, it really will help so. Yeah, thank you.
CORY: Yeah, so for for people who listen to this after the after the fact. Check out their website. We are intolerant dot online and yeah try and keep up with this story I do think it’s important I. You can’t trust cops like you and the state will attack anarchists wherever they can, so.
ROSA: Thank you.
ELLIS: Alright, thank you dude.
Death to Computers
Ellis: Ohh, we’ve got chat.
Rosa: We got chat. We can see it on the screen when people to join us, so that’s that’s something, isn’t it?
Ellis: Oh, there we go. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, it’s not going to stay there.
Unknown Speaker: It’s not going to stay.
Ellis: There is it. No, no. You put it going. Put it on there.
Rosa: That’s alright. Because there’s a lot of talk about the cost of living prices being in the camera. Ross. There’s a lot of it being agreed. Crisis. But the problem with that is that you know, it’s just capitalism and capitalism will always both enable and reward greed. And capitalism will always go from crisis to crisis because it’s a fundamentally unstable system. And and I think. You know, you’ve just seen how bereft so many politicians are of. Anything to say really, that’s of. Any help to anybody about the cost of living crisis and then you get you get people like Michael Gove making these funny voices. It’s cause he’s got nothing. His whole ideology is everything the neocons believe in and any neoliberal.
Ellis: I think I know where. That comes. From Michael goes weird, funny voices.
Unknown Speaker: Hmm. Well.
Ellis: Boris Johnson.
Rosa: He does a funny voice when he doesn’t want to answer things.
Ellis: When he can’t answer a question, he doesn’t know what the answer is or he has serious like difficulty actually coming out and saying something that like you know, everybody knows it’s true, but he’s, you know, they’re denying then what happens is he comes out and he says a word stupidly.
Rosa: He does, he says. An individual word, really, dumbly. We could probably at a later date slot, splice in some clips if we were going to be clever and release the clip.
Ellis: And that’s what God is trying to do. Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Rosa: Yeah, but I’m sure that any. Be watching this back has seen those moments of Boris Johnson talking like that now. We’re probably not going to get many people join us. But that is. OK, because it’s not really a surprise, yeah.
Ellis: That’s alright, that’s alright.
Rosa: So tell me what’s on your mind?
Ellis: On my mind. On my mind, lately has been the whole monarch.
Rosa: Yes, we we were fielding some questions because we wanted to do question and answer type videos willingly inviting challenge for anybody who thinks that we’re ridiculous for calling ourselves revolutionaries or suggesting that that is kind of the thing that anybody who believes in revolution needs to do. Uhm. Is to not wait for somebody else but to be part of it now. And we’ve got three questions. Well, one wasn’t a question it was and and it wasn’t good faith either, but we’re gonna do it anyway because it is similar to the kind of critique that I can imagine getting from somebody who I would consider my comrade. This particular individual clearly not having looked at their timeline, just massive right winger trying to shift stuff. But I’m fine. Let’s let’s stir that. Let’s stir that **** and see whether there is actually a problem there. You said that there was something very off putting about ‘political hobbyist types’. Now, we had a few thoughts on. Political hobbyist. I’ll go through the rest of his comments and statements as we go through it. Yeah, yeah, that’s that’s where he started.
Ellis: Was that we would start political hobbyist. OK. OK Well, political hobbyists, I mean. If you, if you if you make. Clocks as a hobby. Yeah. Then what’s that?
Rosa: That’s telling me that there’s low battery.
Ellis: Oh there. Yeah, yeah. If you make clocks for a living, you go out and you do it every day, and it’s what you do for a living, and it’s what you do. You, you. Are a clock. Maker right. If you are a builder and you go out and you make buildings, you are a builder. But if you go home and then make clocks for an hour. Of an evening and you find that settling. Then you are a a hobbyist clock maker. Now if you take those two, I mean a majority of our life is spent researching, discussing shift, coming up with new ways, of looking at things, all sorts of stuff. And we like, although we don’t put out videos every day on what’s going on, on the news and all this sort of ****. We sit at home and we talk about it and we discuss it and we we refer to it. In later videos. And all of the content that comes up in our videos is **** that takes a long time to do, and we do it every day. All done so to say that we’re political hobbyists. We don’t do anything else, so I don’t think they’re hobbyists, you know?
Rosa: Hmm yeah. And and if. If you do so much of your time doing this thing and you are just obvious in the eyes of somebody like that, well, that leaves literally no room for a actually dedicated, genuine person. What a sad way to live. But moving on with his comment he mentioned. You know, referenced my black and red wig and he said hair dye. I don’t I don’t. I’m busy doing politics. I don’t have time to dye my hair. I wear cheap wigs. Thank you. And that’s that’s how we do it and. He also goes on to say say that calling for a general strike is pointless, that it’s delineated from the same soulless, lifeless politics that is so fictional now. I think what he’s trying to say is he’s talking about electoral politics, the kind of stunted pretend arguments that I had. Performatively because really, the choices that are being offered are so, so close to. Weather. I would not say by any means that general strikes fall within the what’s considered legitimate normal politics by so many people. For the longest time, they’ve been marginalized as a Ave. for change or a political solution, which they are. They’re not just a political tool. They are a political. Solution. If you strike with the demand that you settle for no concessions and that we settle for nothing less than permanent change. But so I disagree. Fundamentally, the the general strikes are part of the soulless politics. I would say that they’ve been quite deliberately removed, and which is why it’s ground that should not only should be reclaimed, but must be, because a workers strike is the only way to revolt. In the most peaceful possible way.
Ellis: Yeah. Yeah, general strikes and work INS. I mean, I mean, The thing is, is you gotta understand that the government have recently put out legislation, anti protest legislation. And I mean you, you’ve got to understand, there’s a reason why they are. They’re making locking on illegal in a protest. And that’s because it’s been proven to. Work in the.
Rosa: This is. New public orders bill that we’re referring to.
Ellis: Yeah. Now The thing is, you gotta understand any form of protest that proves to work. They will deal a. To mice. Yeah, that’s the way. That’s the way they operate. Yeah, that’s how you retain a system as an authoritarian. You you, you subdue any and all protest that actually works. And if it doesn’t work, let them do it.
Rosa: And that’s why. And you know what the most effective protest is and why they outlawed it so ******* long ago.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Ellis: Yeah. Yeah, so.
Rosa: Is a general strike and a general strike, as in, you strike in solidarity with other workers just because they’re other. Workers not a direct conflict between yourself and your personal employer. That’s illegal. It has been for a long time. We’re totally advocating you do this illegal thing, but you should know that that’s how much they fear it that they already, just like they are now with locking on and with so many other forms of protest they already delegitimized. And illegalize. That a long time ago, because it is the most effective and that is why we should be looking back to these methods and understand that, frankly, any means of resistance now under this regime with these new rules over protest, any means is unlawful. Right. So what kind of unlawful means are you prepared to engage in, given that just a normal standard protest that’s a little bit noisy falls within that now.
Ellis: My point with the de-legitimisation of protest is; we’re going to break the law. Yeah. If you’re against this government and you wanna do anything at all about it, you’re going to have to break the law and you’re gonna have to be comfortable with the prospect of breaking the law. Yeah, you could be arrested. You could be put in fucking prison, but at the end of the day... it’s like me and Rosa said, me and Rosa are going down in a hale of bullets. That’s the way it goes. But we’re prepared to do that. We’re prepared to spend fucking years in prison if necessary. If it gets the fucking message out. What’s important is not me as an individual. Or you as an individual. It’s about the cause, it’s about making a better world for my children, for my grandchildren, for all of us, you know? And yes, sacrifices have to be made and I am absolutely prepared to be part of that sacrifice. That’s not a problem I don’t have. I don’t have an issue with that.
Rosa: There is... There’s so much...
Ellis: What I have an issue with is the way this ******* country is run. Do you know what I mean? So yeah...
Rosa: And I have an issue with leaving that burden to the kids also. I mean, what else must we do to load on them? You know, they are already going to live in significantly bloodier times because of climate conflict. Now do we want them to have to carry out a revolution in the only way that will be possible post-automation, which is just like a poem I wrote, said blood, blood and determination. I don’t want that for the kids of this world. You know, I would rather that we take that on ourselves now, when such velvet means are still at our hands, yeah.
Ellis: Yeah, I mean, we were discussing earlier on the death of billionaires and that sort of stuff. Yeah. And I mean the thing is at the end of the day. I know that it will be necessary and I’m prepared to use violence and justify violence in the name of the cause, but at the same time, I’m not a violent person. I’ll defend myself. By all ******* means, and I’ll defend anyone else that you know that is being oppressed in any way, yeah. But at the same time...
Rosa: But that means taking the fight to this oppressive systems.
Ellis: Yeah. At the same time, that is reactive violence, yeah.
Rosa: And the amazing thing is that the rich, the wealthy, they...
Ellis: They can keep a house.
Rosa: They can keep a house, they can keep everything the...
Ellis: They can keep all the all the **** that they’ve got. They just can’t keep ******* taking everyone else. Yeah.
Rosa: Yeah.
Ellis: You know, it’s like landlords. Yeah. Yeah. We’ll take all of your houses off you except one. And you can live in that and you can go out and get a ******* job and pay the ******* bills. You know what I mean?
Rosa: Yeah. So if you wanna keep your fancy as nice as house if you want, but you’re gonna have to pay the.
Ellis: Yeah, yeah. You’re gonna have to work out all the ******* expenses for it and get a job that’s worth the money to pay it. You know what, I.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Ellis: Mean. Otherwise why the **** do you want? A big house. Yeah, yeah.
Rosa: You know, or maybe they could just live like us, right? Or in fact, in fact, they won’t even have to do that, because if they didn’t do that, we could all.
Ellis: Yeah, maybe they could look like. Every ****** else hey. Now.
Rosa: Live so much better.
Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. They wouldn’t have to live like ours.
Rosa: Yes, they will. They will never.
Ellis: You know, they might have to make a few *******, you know, personal sacrifices in their lifestyle and yet, but at the end of the day. We’re all going to be better off for it.
Rosa: Absolutely.
Ellis: You know.
Rosa: Yeah. I mean the two. To hear and see. So many people. Struggling and to be to be struggling. With this cost of living crisis, it is. It’s exhausting and and it’s painful, so painful to hear how many people are struggling and how many of those people are working. You know and and I mean it must not be forgotten and obviously we’re unlikely to forget because we fall into this category. But even if you’re not in work, you shouldn’t live in poverty. Just going to say it.
Ellis: No, no, no. I mean, especially in, I mean my my opinion is that if you are disabled to the point where you can’t. Back. Then you should be given a median wage as your disability benefit, because why should the fact that you can’t do something? To earn enough money to have the same things as everyone else, deny you all of those things. It it just doesn’t ******* make sense. Do you know what I mean? If you’re going to have any kind of equity in the.
Rosa: It doesn’t and.
Ellis: This world. You need to give disabled people more ******* money. I mean, I’ve got a theory on this, actually talking about benefits that the low benefits in the country and low wages. And the high cost of living. If wages, I mean this is cutting it very, very short and I could go right into it in detail as to how you could exactly do this right. But if wages were to rise across the board by 2 lbs an hour. Right. That would be an extra £80 a week in your average Joe’s pocket working 40 hours, right? That extra 80 ^2 means that that’s extra £80 that they’re going to spend and that they they don’t have to worry about finding that £80 towards their bills. Yeah, which means they’re going to be less resentful of people that are on benefits. Which means that the people on benefits and the people that are working. Are going to be more able to come together and collectivize in action, yeah.
Rosa: Because that’s the thing you have to recognize is a lot of the most radical people you meet who support the workers revolution. Most are not in work. Yeah. And and we have to recognize that the oppression and the subjugation that that disabled people feel.
Ellis: But.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Rosa: Under the austerity logic of capitalism is just another intersecting form of oppression, like wage theft that just happens to different groups of people. The enemy is the same and therefore the cause is to.
Ellis: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean like, like I say, given given just a small raise in income, a small raise in income, I mean the the way to do it would be to nationalize the money system of nationalised banks and nationalize the printing of money so that when there is a lack in the economy like, you know, like. Now. Yeah, what you do is you nationalize all essential services to start with. And then once they’re nationalised, you raise the the wages of public sector workers by £2.00 an hour and you just ******* print the money. And yes, I I absolutely agree. Economists will tell me that I’m a ******* nut case and that printing money just creates hyperinflation. ********. ********. You stop printing money when the when the economy is balanced. When there is enough money being spent on wages and on buying goods in taxes for you to be able to to use that money. To repay benefits etc etc right and pay for all the public services right? So once you’ve got the tax coming in from all of those people that have had that extra wage rise. Then you you get your your balanced economy so that the money coming in it balances the money going out and then you stop printing money. Yeah. And you leave it as a balanced economy. No inflation. Prices don’t go up. The price of your house is the price of your ******* house mate. Yeah. That’s it. Yeah, things do not go up in value. You do not need to earn more money to live because it’s not going up every year by more than your wage raise. Yeah. And a balanced economy is what every government wants, and I’ve just given you the ******* answer. Do you know what I mean?
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Rosa: Yeah, Speaking of nationalization, you know, and pivoting away from the the beautifully radical to the painfully centrist and yet somehow beyond the ******* bail. Why are so? Few people, and I mean even just few individuals. Not, not just politicians. People calling in radio shows to say that this cost of living crisis is ****** ** and I’m struggling and they say, well, what do you want to see? And they want to see the windfall tax put in? Yes, sure, because yeah. But. But none of them really believed that that would ultimately solve the problem, and yet they all stopped short of calling for nationalization of energy.
Ellis: Yeah. I mean, I’ll tell you the problem with windfall tax, there’s two issues with it. The first one is that you tax an energy company billion pounds they’ve had on from six. What was it, 167 billion in profit, right? So you tax them a billion, right? And you go. Yeah, it’s less than 1%, but you know, we’re going to call it a windfall tax. Billion quid. Yeah. All they’re going to do is raise the prices to make up for that lost billion, right. You’re not banning them on raising prices. You’re not capping energy prices. You’re just saying to the people that are producing it. Give me some money. Right. So they’re just going to bump up the prices. So and the other issue with that is.
Rosa: Yeah.
Ellis: If you do that. Wants a windfall tax. You’re not stopping them from gaining that amount of money again. I mean, you, you have to. You have to understand, right? You have to understand one important thing to understand with economics is every single pound that goes into a bank account or offshore is not a pound. That is in the economy.
Rosa: Yeah, and are. Actually.
Ellis: Right, because the economy is the money going round and round the money being stashed is not a part of our economy. That’s not a part of our running economy. So all of these ******* billionaires, every single pound, every single dollar, is taken from the workers and the working class. Yeah, every single *******. Yeah, someone earned that money with blood and sweat. Someone earned that pound. And where is it? Sat in a ******* offshore bank account doing nothing for anyone. Do you know what I mean?
Rosa: And even if it’s not taken offshore, let’s do a little bit of a a revision. Who created the increase in value when you’ve got an end product from the value of those tools and the material? Something’s happened. Something’s happened and and had that thing not happened, there would be no increase in value, no profit to be gained. What happened? A worker did their ******* job. Yeah. So how did the bosses get a job of their own? Because right now, they get to keep it. And that’s what.
Ellis: Yeah. Yep.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Ellis: I mean.
Rosa: We call wage theft.
Ellis: The capitalist the capitalist system takes you away from the work that you do, your your, the work that you do. Too, you should be absolutely connected to it. You should be proud of it. It should be something that you’ve done to improve society and the Community that you live in. That’s what work is for, isn’t it? Yeah. And people have become so disconnected from that. That’s called dialectical materialism. But people have become so disconnected from the. Their personal connection to the material things that they create, the nation that they’ve, yeah, they’ve been so alienated from it that now.
Rosa: Hey.
Ellis: You couldn’t give. A **** about doing a good job as long as you get paid at the end of the week.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, but it’s.
Rosa: And thus no judgment on you. It’s a judgment of the system that that forces you to do any job just to survive and and fills your life. Therefore, with all that time that could have felt rewarding in some way with drudgery.
Ellis: You know what I mean? That’s not no, it’s capitalism that made that. It’s capitalism that made that.
Rosa: Nothing but drudgery until you get home and to enjoy that tiny bit of your life that is left. Yeah, with the little bits that you meant. Great bye.
Ellis: Can I just take a quick look at end stage capitalism? And stage capitalism. We’ve reached the point now where? In order to make the profit from the things that you produce, you’re not paid enough to buy the things that you produce. So the only and because capitalism doesn’t produce things that you need, it produces things that make profit. The only people that they can make profit from are the people with loads of money. So the more things us time goes on and we reach further and further towards the very, very final end stages of capitalism. It’s going to end up where you’re making high end stuff for people that can afford it. And nothing else is going to get made.
Unknown Speaker: Hmm.
Ellis: Because you can’t afford it, mate. So it’s not profitable.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Rosa: And and then we start getting into. How dispensable are you because?
Ellis: Yeah, absolutely.
Rosa: Because basically, once you can’t afford the things that capitalism provides, you are just a drain. Now we know that states won’t help us because we’ve seen austerity.
Ellis: Ask yourself, right, ask yourself simple question if you want to know where people’s ******* morals and **** like, ask yourself a simple question. They’re two idiots on YouTube, right? Ask yourself your boss. How much does he give a **** about me? How much does? Your boss give a **** about Rosanna. And if you can say, well, he doesn’t know them, so he doesn’t give a **** about them at all, then that means that he’s a capitalist. Whereas if you can say, well, you know, I work in a collectivised industry and we give a **** about everyone. So yeah, of course, these two now. Then you’re not a capitalist. And that’s that’s. ******* simple mate. It is that simple. Ask yourself, do you give a **** about these people that you don’t know?
Rosa: Something that is something’s driven, driven by profits entirely, obviously, can have no morals.
Ellis: You know. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It’s not morals. Morals are not part of the.
Rosa: System. Exactly and and.
Ellis: No profit is. That’s all that matters. You can go **** *** and die in a corner, mate.
Rosa: And there’s and. There’s so, so little we can do about it through legitimate means through which is what we were talking about at the start by delegitimizing any of the means that could actually succeed at creating.
Unknown Speaker: You. Know.
Ellis: We gotta break the law. We gotta break the.
Rosa: Change which means we have to break the law and frankly, anybody who’s planning on going to the March today in London stopped the rot that could have by the click of the home sex fingers had been declared null and void. You’re not allowed it. We’re gonna shut you all down. Yeah. They could have done that. And they can do that with any ******* protest now. Yeah. And so if you were thinking about even going on a March, you’re already thinking about breaking the law.
Ellis: Yeah.
Rosa: In the name of change, so consider is there. Further you will go. How far will you go? Because. Things have got to change. They have to and I am not prepared to leave it to my stepson and his generation.
Ellis: Yeah.
Rosa: I’m I am just not.
Ellis: No, I mean I I want, I want my kids to have a good life. I don’t want them to have to just *******. Be slaves for. Like, not even enough money to pay the ******* rent. That’s ********. I don’t want that for my children, you know. And if if you’re willing to put up with this ****, then you’re willing to let your children be slaves.
Rosa: Yeah.
Ellis: You know, if you like it, it’s like the song sets. Yeah, if you. If you put up with this, then your children will be next.
Rosa: Yeah. Yeah.
Ellis: You know.
Rosa: You know that you use will tolerate if you tolerate the.
Ellis: Yeah, if you tolerate this. Yeah, that’s right. If you tolerate this, then your children will be next. They’re *******. Right. You know.
Rosa: We are intolerant and we implore you to reposition as such because because it it is down to.
Ellis: Yeah. I don’t want that.
Rosa: Power exists because it is tolerated. Now it is. I’m not saying it’s easy to resist power and to overthrow it, but it is fundamentally possible. And we cannot allow ourselves to believe the lie that change is impossible, and we certainly cannot be telling ourselves that lie because. It’s just not true. Things can change, and if we want to just acknowledge that as a fact and maybe hope it that our that kids will do it. I don’t. I don’t know, man, that that makes you a bit of a coward if you ask me. Because they’re kids and they’ve got enough looking on their horizon.
Ellis: Yeah. I mean. We need. Inclusive to, we need the kids. We need ******* everyone. We need the old people. Everybody plays their part in the revolution. Even if all you’re doing is spreading ******* memes on Facebook.
Rosa: Yeah. I mean the militant and frankly the militancy of the kids school strike for climate is one of the best ******* things we’ve seen in ages better than Extinction, Rebellion better than it’s so good. And that kind of militancy is beautiful to see in the younger generation and we.
Ellis: Yeah, yeah. More effective.
Unknown Speaker: More effective.
Rosa: Should at the very least meet it.
Ellis: But we should also understand that they shouldn’t be like that. It shouldn’t. It shouldn’t be like this, they should not.
Rosa: Exactly. And if anybody, it should be us that does it.
Ellis: Need to do that. Yeah, they nobody should have to do it. *******. Nobody should have to do it. I mean, ****, mate, we shouldn’t have to sit here and make ******* videos. We should be on holidays somewhere, ******* lazing in the sun or growing veg or doing a ******* thing. Do you know what I mean? But we’re not. We’re sitting on video making anti capitalist ******* films. You know what I mean?
Rosa: No leaf.
Ellis: Making anti capitalist videos because it has to be done. Someone’s got to do it.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Rosa: And it would be really interesting for anybody who who isn’t a firm anti capitalist yet to to bring us your primary concerns in politics. And because we will find a way of telling you it’s capitalism because.
Ellis: Oh, absolutely.
Rosa: It all is.
Ellis: Yeah, every problem is capitalism.
Rosa: And and this is this is you know how you end up an anti capitalist is is you take issue with these things around you and once you realise that you can’t have. The justice, without getting rid of the capitalism is when you when you realize that anti capitalism is where the fight is, that that is. Where the challenge lies and nothing can be any different. If that doesn’t change.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Rosa: And and that’s why we don’t say strike for better work conditions. We don’t say strike. So that your overtime is paid we don’t say strike. So your boss treats you with respect. We don’t say strike because you can make it a bit better, no. Because we’ve done the incrementalism. And yes, thanks for that little scrap. Thanks for that scrap that we got with blood each ******* little bit of workers liberation we have was blood. The weekend was one with blood, you know.
Ellis: The AR day.
Rosa: Now, do we want to keep winning these small, small victories in these bloody ways, or do we want to say no concessions? This is about a succession of powerful stop. Yeah.
Ellis: Could I just say that I think Jeremy Corbyn should start the clause four party?
Rosa: Yes, you were saying this. And and I mean clause 4 being UM to secure for the workers the full fruits of their labour and most equitable distribution. Thereupon a system of common ownership of the means of production, exchange and. Something else? Delivery. That’s it.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, sing it, sing it.
Rosa: This is the the socialism bit in the Labour Party that Tony Blair.
Ellis: This is this is this is the bit of the Labour Party that was what the Labour Party stood for before Tony Blair. That was what the aims of the Labour Party was, and that was written as like it was. Yeah, it was. It was part of the Constitution of the party clause.
Rosa: Part of the Constitution of the party.
Ellis: But Clause 4 is a damn good basis to start a party on itself if there is no Socialist Party. Yeah, yeah. And I I think there are too many socialist workers parties that sort of thing, right. And they’re not what they say they are.
Rosa: Yeah. Yeah.
Ellis: Right. But what we need is a close four party that sticks to clause 4.
Rosa: That says, at a minimum, what we all agree on is common ownership of the means of production. Like there’s so many other places we can go from there. Yeah. But if we say that, that’s that’s the point of of anti capitalism actually ending the private, you know, selling of labour and.
Ellis: Yeah. It says, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The private ownership capital, yeah.
Rosa: Yeah. Then then that I think is something around. Which unity can be built because frankly, as an anarchist, I need to sell socialism before I can sell anarchism. As you know, as a communist, you could argue the same thing. And I would say that when I say a bite your hand off a bare bone socialism, I really am serious I.
Ellis: Absolutely.
Rosa: Of course, I do have beliefs about states that would dictate my involvement in.
Ellis: I mean, ****, man, if you.
Rosa: In a workers state, because I would, I would be very keen to ensure that the pitfalls that can arise from statehood would be avoided. But it’s not that I would oppose it on that principle alone because I do believe that the harm of capitalism to be so, so much greater. Than any potential harm I see there. For for a statist socialism. Yeah, yeah, I still think status socialism is is is infinitely better than.
Ellis: I cherish night, man. If if it doesn’t matter who you are, if you come up to me and go, would you like a nationalised health system instead of the part private part public system we’ve got now? Yes, I’d ******* bite your hand off for that. Just having a National Health system.
Rosa: Yeah. So that you could actually go through.
Ellis: Not an NHS that’s half private, but a fully nationalised health system. You know, I’d ******* love to go to a dentist. **** me, yeah.
Rosa: So you could actually go to the you know. To the dentist properly.
Ellis: But until the until the NHS is nationalised. Truly, then yeah, I mean.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Rosa: Then that’s that’s beyond the reach of many, many, many.
Ellis: Yeah, I mean, I I remember, I remember when I was a kid. I remember when I was a kid, you could go to the dentist and you could. You could get whatever treatment you ******* want. You could get gold ******* teeth on the NHS and it should be like that.
Rosa: People, the dentistry is so expensive.
Ellis: You know, it absolutely should be like that. The NHS should provide an equal service for everyone. Yeah, that means that you’re rich as ****. You get exactly the same service as you do if you’re poor as ****, you’re poor as ****. You get exactly the same service as you do if you’re rich as ****, that means anything you need is provided. And it should be nationalized. You know, not ******* half Protoss. I mean, Richard Branson making profits off of the palliative care of children. **** ***. If, if. If my kids are dying, I don’t wanna pay Richard Branson’s ******* pocket.
Rosa: Yeah, ******* disgusting. Money. Yeah. And that’s what we’re doing right now and that’s what we’re tolerating right now, yeah.
Ellis: Do you know? What I mean? I want that money to go towards the treatment. Of my child like. You know, not Richard Branson’s ******* stupid ******* vanity projects are going into space. **** him.
Rosa: And the thing we always need to remember with every private endeavour is where the duty of care or responsibility lies. It is to shareholders, whether that’s a school, a Hospice, anything.
Ellis: Yeah, yeah. Doesn’t matter what it is if it’s prime. Shareholders, the ones that profiting from it, not the workers, not the people that are making the share, not the customers. No one. No one.
Rosa: And that they’re also the the the primary concerns to be taken into account.
Ellis: No one said some ********. Who’s gone online and gone? Ohh, numbers go. Up. **** ***, you know. **** right off the head.
Rosa: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Right. I think we’ve done pretty well considering we’ve had no input. From chat.
Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that’s that’s good. Yeah, that’s.
Rosa: I think so. What we could do is probably hold it there.
Ellis: Good.
Rosa: And say goodbye to anybody who watches this in the future sense, he said Sunday. Indeed.
Ellis: Happy socialist Sunday.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Ellis: Yeah.
Rosa: And we we will be trying to do a a regular Sunday stream. I think that would be a good idea and you know it will, you know us it’s lots of tech problems and.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Ellis: I’ve been a ******* nightmare today trying to get a camera working, mate. Proper nightmare. That’s why this is filmed on Rose. ‘S face, yeah.
Rosa: Yes. So we thank you as ever for your patience with the the logistics. But as you all know, all the tech that we used to know how to use that all got taken by the cops.
Channel Reintroduction: The Case & Our Call For Revolution
Authors: Rosanna Lilley & Ellis Langsdale
Date: Aug 14, 2021
Source: <https://web.archive.org/web/2oe_/http://wayback-fakeurl.archive.org/yt/MqQhDaLbc04>
Rosa: A friend once asked me why I ever bother to talk, let alone write an entire book of poetry, about the defense of democracy. When I had said multiple times, I did not consider us to live under one that I thought it was a plutocracy. At least that it wasn’t possible to have democracy until money was entirely removed from political influence and that cannot happen without an end to capitalism?
Right, so what we’re talking about is a cognitive dissonance. I would have demanded of myself and others that we don’t breach democratic norms just because our democracy is deficient. It’s kind of insane isn’t it? Kind of doesn’t make sense I. Mean with everything at stake.
The IPCC report just came out and this isn’t just but the consequences of capitalism. It’s the subjugation of the entire thing. Everything is done under duress. Because capitalism can strip it all from you. It’s work or die. There’s no choice here. There’s no freedom.
So, the idea that this is democracy and that we should limit ourselves to the avenues of change through these processes that are designed to ensure that social revolution. Or change on that scale never happens.
That’s what liberal democracy is, by the way. Because ask yourself what you’re being asked to be liberal too liberal of contradiction. The fact that it doesn’t make sense.
And this is what was happening with that cognitive dissonance that didn’t make sense, did it? Not at all.
So we are redefining the channel now the stated aims. Having confronted the reality.
Anybody that’s seen the content we’ve been putting out will know that we have been calling for global revolution by general strike. Velvet means ideally. But that this is where we are.
We’ve lost all faith in electoral politics reform. There’s no longer the alternative to revolution. There is no reform left, it’s harm mitigation. It’s stopping people from making **** worse, and that was my answer to my. Friend, well, if you want something to be better, you shouldn’t make it. Let somebody make it worse, because then you’ve got longer to go. It’ll be harder work to get it to where you want to be. I was right, that’s still right. But resistance must be holistic, right?
It has to be going in from all sides, like the three pillars of anti fascism, the street state. And the public space. We will get back round to whether you should vote considering. You know, we’re telling you that it won’t give you the change you need. We all need.
My issue personally was that the rules had been broken, but at the same time already believed many of those rules to be a nonsense that made a mockery of democracy. And so. This is. It shouldn’t have taken what it took. But it’s only now that the literal fascist government is in power, that that broke for me.
[Riot Footage:]
Every single ******* one of you.
In filming this footage is a reporter of the Daily Mirror.
This is what happened next. Playing into the hands. Of a ******* fascist government.
He doesn’t give a **** about you and they don’t give a **** about us. And you’re ******* stupid. You’re ******* stupid for doing it.
Rosa: When peaceful resistance is restricted, is it not? ******* madness to be constricted by duty to a non existent democracy already under capitalism or cruel absurdity made a sick joke by the power rubbing Brexit sovereignty. Only for the executive. This ****, it’s the straw. It’s the break, it’s them that’s raised the ******* stakes.
Triggering new rules of engagement. And let’s be very clear that the shot was fired by our government.
And I talk about this process because I’m sure most people are still great with that cognitive dissonance. You think this is all a? Joke, but still. You probably feel quite uncomfortable by our discussion of revolution and extra parliamentary action. So let’s recap where we are and don’t feel ashamed that it’s taken this for you too instead. Just wake up now. And take action now.
Updates
Rosa: Now we’re going to go on to the horrific updates from the last 3 months since we uploaded a video.
Ellis: Yep, the world is fucked.
Rosa: The world is super fucked.
[A minute of scary news titles]
Rosa: And just to you know, make it more real for you, because yeah, we’re trying to radicalise you because reality should be ******* terrifying you right now. I mean where in the hell is the hysteria? Have a look at this footage, does it not look like people sailing through the pits of hell?
[Footage of people on a boat near a forest fire]
Ellis: It is and this is the hell that we’re all headed for. If we continue with capitalism. It needs to be gone, it needs to be got rid of now, there’s no way to, and there is no political time. There’s no I mean by all means vote, but there is no political time to deal with this and capitalism is at the core of it. And it needs rooting.
Rosa: If the only thing that drives an economy is profit. Why would it do what is useful for society if it is not profitable? These are people who are already planning to let us perish while they sit pretty in bunkers and madno space colonies is now the idea, and as a short reminder, it’s a direct you back to this. Infamous though again, perhaps it’s the cognitive dissonance and the terrifying nature of it. That means that we all deny it that these people have so much power, unearned, wealth. Seek to turn us into slaves if they let us live.
Ellis: If they need us at all.
Rosa: Indeed and here’s the other clock on a workers revolution. Automation, no shit, because it’s no leverage to rescind your labour if your labour is no longer needed. Now I don’t know we can’t estimate how many jobs need to be lost to automation before a workers revolution really loses a substantial bit of its power. The first block on it. Obviously climate devastation. Because we’re. Already seeing it. This is absurd, and here’s just a little snippet from the last three months again.
Ellis: Flooding, fires…
Rosa: All that shit. Do you remember that one where a man saved that little girl or little boy, he was on this pebble between rushing fucking waters. It was horrific.
Ellis: Yeah.
Rosa: So, the purpose of this video is not to explain our idea of how the revolution would work. The precise place we will end up, but why we have decided that we utterly reject the demand and and to work only within a rigged process. And the inevitable disembowels that will come because of that rejection?
Ellis: Yeah.
Rosa: Because what is madness is clearly describing the impossibility of getting this change. And doing nothing. That’s that, is waiting patiently in line when the road winding corrals of the slaughterhouse of capitalism with your children in hand. Oh, and letting poorer people who are less complicit ahead of you in the queue. And as with complicity, we set out just yesterday that consumers cannot be held liable. But what they consume, because Oh yeah, they have no control over the way it’s produced. So that thing you know, the way that people keep saying, oh, you know environmentalists. They’re trying to impose socialism. They say that because they know it works, because guess what? If people had ownership common ownership, it means. Production they could choose how it’s produced. They could choose to try these plastic alternatives. They could choose to fossil fuels off and just stop exploration **** we can’t use 80% of the stuff that we know the precise location of already. So, this big claim that justifies our rejection of these rules, and. We’re going to let them make the case for us. This isn’t a call out, this is just I was literally gripped with the same cognitive dissonance, so this is not a judgment of poor capacity, politically or anything. It’s confronting this reality is fucking awful because we are fully seized, fully seized of the size. Of what we? Declare ourselves at war with now.
Ellis: At the same time as our position. We also understand that all of the positions on the left are viable. We understand that unity is essential and everybody plays the part their own part in the revolution.
Rosa: Which is why, and this is coming to what we hope can be advantageous for other people on the hard left. Like us, we’ve come to accept the ways in which these people differ in their approach. Essentially, they are leading people in to the consciousness class, consciousness and consciousness of what capitalism does to the planet that will lead them to that cognitive dissonance. Now, one hopes that there is something that breaks that and leads them to us that tells them no. You’re right, it didn’t ******* make sense. To work within rules that are rigged when there is so much at stake, no, it doesn’t make any ******* sense at all, and contradiction you may have heard Marx’s talk about a wee bit in capitalism. Let’s think about it. People are wealthy because they already have wealth they. Keep profit which is only created the increase in value from the materials and the resources is only created by the presence. And the activity of. The worker, yet the worker doesn’t take their share proportional to the input they put to the increase in. Well, you now that doesn’t make any. Sense either does it. So this isn’t just about the consequences of capitalism, but it’s construction. And when we talk about construction of a system and consequences, let’s think about let’s properly left unity is actually not a mad thing to call for by people without opposition.
Ellis: Well the right shows disparaging views all over the place. And they show unity when it comes time to vote.
Rosa: Because they understand gains for one are gains for another. The important thing to remember is that almost every vision held by a leftist. If we define being leftist by wanting the common ownership of the means of production. Are all closer together morally in their conception, operation, and consequence than any single one of them are to capitalism. So what in God’s name are we doing arguing and actually? For the record, leftist infighting not actually as big a thing as one thinks because leftist infighting, the squabbles that absolutely happen are and are silly and we need to stop. They are not the same thing as labour infighting, because labour's not left.
Ellis: Any party with a right wing isn’t a leftist party. When Tony Blair threw away clause 4 he destroyed the Socialist Labour Party and the workers no longer had a voice in the political sphere.
Rosa: So, if we think about contradiction again, how does it make sense for? People to think it is strange that there are disagreements among people who have always been in the Labour Party because of what it was meant to be, and people who were actively against founding principles. Primary aims of the Labour Party like Constitution, Clause 4. Which reads would you like to? Do you know it? I know it beaten by now right?
Ellis: Common ownership of the production…
Rosa: To secure for the workers, the full fruits of their industry and most equitable distribution thereof upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production. And it continued. Now, this being jettisoned by Tony Blair fundamentally changes what the Labour Party is. And it changes what the political fear is, what the options are for leftist politics. There are none. So if there are no democratic avenues for socialist politics. And then.
Ellis: The only action that can be taken is actually parliamentary action, absolutely.
George Monbiot: You need a supportive and enabling state and almost nowhere on earth at the moment. Is there a state which is in a position to start doing that? So we need regime change. Democratically, of course, and peacefully.
Rosa: Our preference is by far for velvet, but we’re not blinded to the role of violence because and this you must remember. They will never relinquish power. It must be taken from them.
Thing is there. Is nothing democratic or peaceful about the status quo? When you apply the trolley problem to caps itself tourism, the answer is uncomfortable but clear. You know, we’ve all acknowledged it as being a a reasonable way of calculating what is moral. The lesser of two evils? The lack of preparedness to. Engage in that. That is selfish ******** that is wanting to keep your hands clean your soul, all pure for what and encounter with St. Peter, that will. Probably live and encounter with Saint Peter that will never ******* happen. Understand that refusal to engage in the lesser evil is to give the greater evil a greater chance. Of coming to pass. This goes for voting harm mitigation, I said is the only option other than revolution? This is true. Reform is reform. Is a ******* pipe dream now. 22 million people die a year from deprivation and understand that. Every person that dies of deprivation is dying because somebody else has too much.
I’ll use the tools of this trade of writing angry verses to ask why we allow people to. Keep billions they never are. I demand you explain to yourself, let alone me how such wealth in so few hands doesn’t leave. Doesn’t need most of humanity damned to abject poverty.
As for democratic:
Jo Maugham: I think it’s more likely than not that we’ll never have another Labour government.
Rosa: So why would this be? I mean, it’s they’re about to explain exactly our case for rejecting the strictures of democracy as we call it. They feel the same things we do, it’s merely the action they choose as appropriate in response that it differs. So let’s let them make the case for us that capitalism. And democracy. Are mutually exclusive.
Ellis: They are.
Jo Maugham: I think it’s more likely than not that we’ll never have another Labour government. I think the the playing field is tilted too much towards the Tories and is continuing to be. Wanted more and more.
George Monbiot: People like Rupert Murdoch and the Barclay brothers through controlling the media are able to impose their views on other people, but simply because they have more money, they use their economic power and translate it into political power, which is what oligarchs do the world over that. Unless Rupert Murdoch is on your side. You are highly unlikely to win a general election and form the next government in this country.
So just thought it was worth mentioning that we did find this clip of Steve Baker saying that. It was good that. There would be a conservative in charge of the BBC now, so we’re also referencing the entire takeover.
Steve Baker: I think this would be great news and I think anyone suggesting we we were somehow appointing our our preferred people needs to look at the record of others who’ve been appointed to these roles and try to be a bit again more realistic about politics and policy and who should be appointed by governments.
Interviewer: Why would it be great news then?
Steve Baker: Well because they’re conservatives.
The press is free, like the free market is freedom and our votes free and fair. We are not ******* free. Do you care?
The media, I mean **** yes is a problem. It was my core problem that got me started with making noise into the void, but. Is by no means the only problem, and even if it was, the time it would take to fix it were you to allow all of this to just continue along the terms it does. At the moment.
You just. ******* hell, it’s not gonna.
Work, are you kidding? Me no, and the lack of imagination with regard to even their policy ideas for rules. You know what to do. It’s not even about policy right about social media.
George Monbiot: One of the things we need to do is to ensure that people are much more aware of what is fake and what is real. Dark ads on social media telling total lies, Facebook, Google, Twitter. They’re all deeply culpable in this. So we must defend ourselves. From lies and that requires digital literacy. And there are ways of doing that, yeah?
Yeah, the response is to what become more digitally literate to be better at spotting the lies. Hell no, what the **** is it? Where politicians are allowed to send personalized propaganda to people, contradictory promises? Everybody has to vote on the same proposal, because guess what? They’re all going to live in the. Same ******** reality.
George Monbiot: When you look at the only Labour leader who has succeeded in recent times, Tony Blair. You see someone. Who has pretty well gone along with the agenda of the billionaire press. I mean he went to great lengths to butter up Rupert Murdoch, potentially the most dangerous man on Earth. The fear, the worry is that he had to do that. In order to appease the billionaire press, and that if a Labour leader doesn’t do that, they can’t succeed.
Rosa: The appeasement of the oligarchs by Tony Blair. I mean it, it’s not really an appeasement. It was a fucking invasion of the Labour Party, and it seeks to create the situation where you have two interchangeable parties that makes it essentially A1 party state. A capitalist state, no matter what you choose.
George Monbiot: People are blaming Corbyn for. For the results of this election. A lot of people blamed Hillary. Clinton, for the results of the presidential election that brought Donald Trump in now Clinton and Corbyn are opposites as far as progressive politics are concerned. People have blamed the opposition in India for the reelection of Narendra Modi. They’ve blamed the opposition in Australia for the election of Scott Morrison. In Brazil, for Jair Bolsonaro, similarly in Hungary and Turkey and Poland in the Philippines.
Rosa: In terror, capital reaches for its comfort blanket, fascism, anything, anything but socialism. In the context of the last general election here in our country, which is where even though any successful revolution should be international, the local action is. Where it begins? Jeremy Corbyn could have been. There were people that wanted his policies. I mean for the record. Guys, you know what you want? Is socialism, not necessarily Corbyn? I no offence, I hear he’s a great constituency MP.
Yeah, it may well be a really nice bloke, but his policies are all socialist. When it’s his policies that you like, so it’s socialism that you, like all korbinites are socialists. They just don’t realise that socialism is separate to Jeremy Corbyn.
And in truth I think and I understand I I wasn’t part of the Corbyn movement, because proportional representation was always a deal breaker for me, but I thought he was very impressive, very inspirational, not a great communicator. Now every socialist Labour leader will be utterly torn apart by our capitalist press. To not expect that to not have your answers. Ready to. Very predictable critique that we should. All know are coming by now. Was perhaps naive.
Ellis: He’s not metaphorically hard enough.
Rosa: Exactly, yeah, I. I like the idea like you say of of a new party being formed with him as a a leading role that seeks to inspire people to join. Yeah, but he will not be the person he.
Ellis: I mean absolutely he could be an advisor, he could be anything but a leader. We need a charismatic leader who isn’t afraid to fight on the harder ground.
Rosa: He’s not a spokesperson. Exactly, fighting on the hostile ground is crucial when you. Don’t mention socialism or but you describe what you want and it’s socialism. The fact that you haven’t mentioned it, it concedes the ground that it’s somehow a bad thing that you should be ashamed, right?
This is a critique we have of people like George Monbiot, but we respect and we ask other. People on the hard left, like ourselves, to also respect their everybody, has their role in the revolution. Ultimately, if we have, you know, leftist thought on one stage of the. Pipeline right, it helps us. Down the line. What we just have. To hope is that. People don’t in gaining the insight that is given and we are using to make our case for us by these people that they don’t get stuck with that cognitive dissonance because the despair. Of the awareness that you’ve got no ******* chance. Something you can do about it is too painful. It is the point, right? It’s why the government treat us with such contempt, why they gaslight us? Because it’s to drive us mad and away from political engagement.
Ellis: To stop you voting. But the right will always vote.
Rosa: Which is why. After we’ve just explained that democracy is not real, we are going to tell you to vote because harm mitigation matters, because otherwise the harm happens.
George Monbiot: We also have to attend to the short term crisis that many people in this country now face.
Even though most of us are little hungry, we have to be careful with our food so. We try not to eat. A lot in one day.
Continued austerity, continued exclusion and marginalization. There’s going to be a rising tide of xenophobia and hatred. It’s even central government policy. Now they’re going to attack Roman, Egyptians and travellers. That’s in the manifesto. So the first thing we need to do is to stand in solidarity. With everyone who is likely to be victimised by this government.
Rosa: Of course I can’t change the world to just a poem or by any means. No one can alone. I can’t tell you capitalism’s best kept secret though. We can the when any bloody time we like except. Only once we know who we are. Bushes politics are. The proof that too many can’t see. That it’s a tool of capital used to divide those from whom we should side. God forbid workers and oppressed people should unite.
Ellis: Vote protest, do what you can. You know within legal means if that’s your gig. But at the end of the day, that is just harm mitigation and. It’s only through extra parliamentary means that any leftist movement is going to get anywhere in the UK.
Rosa: OK, so rather than parties clearly our concern is more with unions and individual groups working in a sort of syndicalist type way, it’s. Also harder for a state. To crack down on a movement that is. Made-up of multiple groups, it’s also more intimidating. One group can be minimized multiple groups. They may be small, but if there is coherence between those groups also that poses a significant threat.
Right, so I mean I get my appeals pretty niche anyway, and there is a role for people like George Monbiot and everybody who looks very respectable and ****. And you know, I can’t get it through a video without smoking a joint and usually have odd gloves on. And you know. This is what we are.
So, for the second main reason, I mean there are many others in which capitalism undermines any possibility of democracy. But, what we’re talking about here is finally in the news a bit more party funding. This is a mechanism that does not just allow for corruption, but is in itself a corrupting force. To explain why party funding is corrupting:
Double Down News: This is fundamentally a question of democracy and accountability. We’re told that we live in a system in which we all have a vote in which we all have a say, but every single system in which we are involved is to a substantial extent controlled by a small number of people. The very top of our society.
Aaron Bastani: Between 2005, 2015, right, the Conservatives raised a quarter of a billion pounds. It’s no coincidence that after 2010 you get austerity. People gave that quarter of. A billion pounds. The Conservative Party, you know, the Labour Party weren’t particularly radical under Blair and Brown. Michael, but the point is, with the rich that it’s never. It’s never enough, and so they said, look, we want our lower taxes. We don’t want to actually fund, you know the NHS and their reward. Was a Conservative government from 2010 and shame on them with the Liberal Democrats, which implements austerity, that is a quid. A quote that was a direct transaction of money, resources, and funds for certain political outcomes, right? It wasn’t an accident.
George Monbiot: What we see happening here in the United States in many other countries around the world. Is that a? Nominally, democratic country falls prey to oligarchy. It is profoundly undemocratic. But it is how politics has come to work in this country.
Rosa: Ah yes, bloody billionaires, 10 people provide 25% of the Conservative Party’s funding.
What was it, another quarter is made-up by property developers. Now a sympathetic example of how this is a corrupting force for any politician. You need money to run. Say you really care about your constituents, but you then come to a decision where the interests, funnily enough of your billionaire owners and working people in your constituency are in conflict. Because they always will be.
I’ll tell you what part poem plays to speak up for the discontented and fan the flames to remind us of our commonality, and that it’s the interests of the rich that are antithetical to most of humanity.
Because they’re irreconcilable, this is kind of the point of populism. We believe the rich’s interests are antithetical to all the powers.
So they say to themselves I will compromise myself this time so that I can run again to help my constituents and it goes on and on and on. This is more contradiction and I think people are ******* sick of being gaslit by the whole world. The discourse of our civilisation is gaslighting.
For as long as we are a capitalist species the way that we have been indoctrinated to be.
There is no democracy, which is why we’re done defending as I think I once crazily said in a poem defending a joke of democracy. And instead we aim to actually create it for the very first time with the abolition of capitalism. And that is the only way it can ever happen.
This is Left wing populism, indeed, intolerant leftists, because we have to be.
And to the parasites, we are we coming for you and yeah, come on, we would like it to be all velvet, but you’re not going to relinquish power are you
Ellis: No, no, not by choice. We’re going to have to take. It away from you.
Rosa: Your answer will determine by what means we take it from you. And anybody who looks clearly at the circumstances can see it is the only way to save the entire ******* world. It’s the only way to end the everlasting oppression and theft from workers.
Ellis: I would love it to be peaceful. General Strike May 1st and next year prepare for it. Get ready collectivise. Tell your friends. This is gonna happen.
Rosa: You don’t have to keep your head down nose to. The grindstone gritting your teeth, because contrary to what capitalist propagandists teach. Should workers of. The world unite there can be real change. Join a fight comrade. After all you have nothing to lose but for your chains.
Ellis: If you have a job. You’re part of it. If you haven’t got a job. You’re part of it. That’s the way it works.
Rosa: If your job is collecting most of somebody’s wage and having them pay off the mortgage on a building that they’re not going to own, in the end.
Ellis: You’ve got a passive income? We’re coming for it.
Rosa: And you will be provided for!
Ellis: You will be provided for.
Rosa: This is the thing, you’re not going to be left with nothing. You’re just going to get to…
Ellis: You’re going to be living the same way that you are now. You’re just not going to be taking away someone else’s wages. That’s it.
Rosa: Exactly.
So it’s time for us to tell them those parasites that we are coming, for them to show them. Who we are.
We are serious. We are and…
Ellis: Deadly serious.
Rosa: We’ve noticed something. There are other impressive voices that we’re going to recommend channels. I think in the description of videos from now on. Mutual aid, some other creators that are doing good work and making the case for revolution.
But there is something interesting there. Lots of them distinguish themselves as revolutionary socialists, socialists or leftists who want a revolution rather than leftist revolutionaries. So we’ve been wondering what would happen if every…
Ellis: Revolutionary Leftist…
Rosa: Became a leftist revolutionary…
Ellis: Don’t forget to like, subscribe, smack the notification bell around like it’s some sort of bash that’s just broke through your living room door. And yeah, enjoy the rest of our content. Have a look through.
Rosa: Yeah, and if you want better quality tech wise.
Ellis: Absolutely Patreon coffee if you just wanna buy the coffee, buys a coffee. But if you really wanna help the cause and you wanna help us get better videos together, please subscribe to the Patreon if you could afford to subscribe to the Patreon.
Rosa: It’s about ability to need.
Ellis: From each according to their ability and to each according to their need.
Rosa: Yeah, and this revolution is needed.
Clips from “The Rich Are Getting Ready, Are you?”
Source: <web.archive.org/web/2oe_/http://wayback-fakeurl.archive.org/yt/IgLlFi1qsMo
Global banks privately prepare for dangerous levels of imminent civil unrest in Western homelands.
This is reporting by the Byline Times. So we're looking at Byline Times...
OK, I legitimately want to cry right now because apparently I had two audio sources recording myself. So I have this terrible audio and now I've got noises outside. All for the love of God. I guess deal with it. I I feel like I set up some good things, so I'm I'm going to keep this how it is...
If you want to support the rough as fuck edge of leftist media, that's us...
contingency planners and institutions, dangerous levels of. Top. Breakdown in the West are now all but inevitable and imminent, and an outbreak of civil unrest is expected to occur anytime this year, but most likely in the coming months as the impact of the cost of living crisis begins to saturate lives of everyone.
We can and we hope.
So at the moment it looks like they are stress and saying the effect of civil unrest on investment, but do it for yourself, power has been preparing for significant civil unrest for the longest time for as long as it has known it would have been justified. Because it's terrified of the righteousness of our fight. And that's why it can never be suppressed. It's why communism is an ideal you can can't kill, because it's about what's fair and what's fair, that question fairness will always arise in the human mind, and you can't take that away.
The combination of energy and food shops. Are a tipping point that will push Western. Societies over the edge.
I pray. I pray it does that and it doesn't just ******* kill people. Only us. Effectively, and also means crucially, individually, each one of us being prepared to ensure that that doesn't happen to ensure we don't tolerate that anymore, cause that's what's been happening. You know, people have been dying because they don't have enough, you know, warmth. The day for always for as long as. Energy has been something that you can make a profit from. Because profit is not just something that can come over people, it will always come over people every single fucking time in a system than. Both of. Of course it will. Of course it will.
The global peace indexes. Later peers showed that global peace has deteriorated. For the night time in a row by nought point nought 7% and has overall worsened over the last 15 years. Violent demonstrations and riots have now occurred in 158 countries. Over 80% of the world.
That's beautiful. All they see the opportunity they see is our opportunity to take their power and they are fucking terrified and they hate us for it. And they are ready. They've been getting ready for a long time. Some rich fucks been getting personally ready with little private armies and bunkers. Because they are so scared of you. Because they know better than we do. They know it deeper in their bones, the power we have when we come together and fucking scares them. Now, if we could feel as empowered as they are scared. Imagine what we could do.
The rich are not people. Yeah, the rich old fucking people. They're a thing. They're people who made themselves a thing, rich by the accumulation of capital by having too much meaning that there are so many people that. Don't have enough. They made themselves something more than a person. They do this thing to themselves, make themselves rich. Make themself a thing or a person, and they make themselves the object of our destruction by their own free choice. And you know what their destruction actually entails. What it could easily entail? Is then just becoming a person again. Choosing to be a person again, relinquishing what they have, what they don't deserve what we earned. What society as a whole owns doesn't take a village just to raise a child takes a village to do fucking anything.
UK State Repression of Anarchists. Solidarity with Toby Shone
Author: Rosanna Lilley
Date: Mar 28, 2022
Source: <web.archive.org/.../1nY0qS8gcKQ>
Today we’re going to be talking about state-repression of anarchists, in particular.
It’s something I’ve mentioned a couple of times recently, trying to find the right way to talk about it, because of course the point is to make it hard to talk about.
We will also get round to things that have happened to us recently and our belief that we appear to be being targeted by central police in some fashion. What happened was a bit crazy, but what Is more insane, more egregious, and causing more harm now is what’s happening to some of our comrades that are already at their mercy in their custody.
There’s been some updates on the situation, a man called Toby Shone is facing that sets a seriously concerning precedent. Just wildly insane that anybody who cares about diversity of opinion and all that **** should be concerned about.
Contributions from comrades are particularly of need right now because of what the cops did when they just stole our shit. But what’s happening to Toby is worse, and that’s why we’re going to talk about him first.
Toby’s Story
We’ll take you a little bit further back and introduce Toby Shone to you.
He was a arrested at gunpoint for four terror charges, none of which stuck none. Instead, they decided to charge him with possession for a series of drugs he had that were for treatment. They were hallucinogenics. They weren’t terribly dangerous and they were his own god damn business. They pushed for the heaviest sentences as a proxy for not being able to imprison him for his political beliefs because they failed to make the case in the terror charges against him.
So that is the facts of the man he is in for possession of some drugs for personal use.
I can get up to you what one of the first really awful things that they did to him that we learned about and you know pricked our interest in all of this. And that was connected to the fact that he is suffering with cancer and having to receive treatment while being imprisoned. Frankly, spuriously. You know what I said about the drugs being for treatment? Yeah, for the fucking cancer. And frankly, when it comes to cancer, I think the way people want to deal with that is. Their fucking business.
A Hospital Visit
Let’s have a look at what happened when he went to receive some treatment. Actually, you know it was a check up. For an MRI scan, so MRI magnetic resonance imaging. And the police police officers. Initially what sorry prison officers who had accompanied him originally, insisted upon having him Shacka. With metal handcuffs, which they decided to to really not seem to understand they couldn’t use. I don’t believe that. I believe that they knew and they really hoped that they would just break his fucking wrist if nobody questioned it. Nobody noticed that they left him on. That’s exactly what I think it was.
But when the medical staff told them they would have to remove those metal handcuffs before he went underwent the procedure. And they then insisted instead on useing plastic zip ties. Even though Toby showing is in a room on his own, which is guarded, so to speak, by a door that the prisoner officers behind the point is, he does not need to be restrained. They unnecessarily restrain his wrists so hard that they’re cutting into his skin. At one point they have to stop and restart the procedure. Because the restraints are too tight. This is the kind of treatment he’s faced and it’s only got worse.
And this happens from all sides, from the individuals in the system to the institutional choices. And wielding of systemic power.
The Prison Guards
So, to get to the more recent revelations we have from the individual in that system who’s gone after him, a man, and we have his name. Yeah, so Stephen Solers so double Lars and named Sonovabitch who has decided to take it upon himself to make Toby. Shearn’s life hell. He is known a amongst the Esso means that he runs the wing by the way, and. He is understood to be a politically motivated bigot and bully. He’s made racist attacks against people verbally before. I haven’t come across stories of physical violence yet, but I won’t be surprised when. Due Toby Sharon has refused to run attend any of the workshops that are run by this senior officer Stephen Solers at HMP Bristol, due to constant provocations, insults, denigration and threats. And following that refusal, he was confined to his cell for 23 hours a day. For two weeks. So who is Esso solers? He’s ex military screw at Bristol Presle, Bristol. Bristol Prison for the last 11 years. Esso Solers is well known amongst prisoners as a politically motivated bully and bigot. He’s boasted to prisoners that he was part of a counter protest that protected the cenotaph. On June 2020 during the Black Lives Matter protests in Bristol. He gloated about the long sentences given to kill the bill. Protesters, particularly Ryan Roberts, that is an egregious case. The man’s got 14 years again, not a single terror offence was found to be sound against him, so let’s get down to yeah, how bad is this? Bye, right? Oh Oh well, another little detail. He’s publicly fantasized about reintroducing chain gangs, saying he would shoot prisoners in the face with a shotgun if they. Rebelled nice, soldiers threatened to kill Toby and blame it on another prisoner. He made derogatory remarks about Irish rebels in the run up to the Bloody Sunday remembrance on January 30th. 30th Toby is of Irish descent, and he’s made racist comments. As I mentioned to Muslim prisoners. And having done a cursory search of the Internet for Toby’s case, he’s decided to just make his life hell from now on.
So let’s talk about what has happened. Also with this Solis guy, because this is all very connected to the systemic state repression that they’re tacking on to the end of his sentence. Even though will get to the fact that he is already meant to be. Eligible for. In a release right now, months ago, but we’ll get to that. Solis, has you know, bullied and taunted to be shown around his cancer? And while he’s been waiting for results, which is obviously an incredibly stressful and worrying time has been subject to, you know, this. People poking and prodding by this ******* over something that as sensitive as you know your survival and following Toby’s refusal to attend any more workshops with him in early February, SO SOLAS has as he previously threatened to do, made a false Intelligence Report stating that Toby threatened to assault him, which will go on Toby’s record and where there is no fair process he is insured through his colleagues in the correspondence department that Toby is not receiving his books or mail, including legal correspondence in an effort to isolate and demoralize him and interfere with his legal process. Solas was also threatened to make sure Toby got an unfavourable transfer to an even worse prison. And to make sure that his application for early release HDC electronic tag, which he was due to apply for in June, will be refused.
The address for Toby shown should you want to contact him. Which would be nice for him anyway, but also as a tactic to harass the prison, to alert other people who are working in the prison to this conduct of the SO by chance that they can intervene and protect Shone, I think it’s a good idea. So Toby shown, this is prisoner #A7645 EP. HMP Bristol. 19 Cambridge Road, Bishops Bishopston Bristol BS7 8PS, UK.
Total Surveillance Order
That is the kind of **** he’s having to put up with by people that work in the system. The individuals, how about what the system itself is now doing with him after this absurd sleight of hand that they conducted. You know, upon failing to convict him on any of the four terrorist charges they tried to bring against him. And instead going after him for possession for some Percy, you know drugs just for himself. And despite the fact that as I just explained, the charges that he was convicted on, that he is in prison for have nothing to do with his political affiliation but drugs. You know you could have terrible politics and be into great drugs. I mean, we all know this, so his political affiliation. The concerns around it, which obviously they have. And they don’t get to have any bearing on him. Surely do they well apparently so because they’re not even, I guess, pretending that this conviction for the drugs is about the drugs. And what do I mean by this?
There is a total surveillance order facing anarchist comrade Toby. Shown you Kate, this is from enough 14 so a serious crime prevention order would legally sanction the criminalization and total surveillance of Toby, shown a serious crime prevention order, would legally sanction the criminalization and total. Valence of Toby shown and everyone around him for years to come after his release.
In November 2020, a series of co-ordinated raids against one of the alleged administrators of the website 325.nostate.net was executed by counter-terrorism cops in the UK as part of “Operation Adream”.
Oh sorry, the police will try and book an arrest me for a bit Percy now as well. Seeing as they couldn’t find anything with that tech forensics.
Several properties in the southwest of England were searched and one person, Toby Shone, was arrested at gunpoint in the Forest of Dean and charged under the Terrorism Act. This was the first time the British State attempted to prosecute an anarchist under modern terrorism legislation and the first time that somebody was prosecuted for being suspected of running an anarchist website.
So the thing that he was suspected for was running a website. Let’s just remind ourselves of that, and the only way it was linked to terrorist activity. Arguably, was information useful to terrorists, but there’s a lot of information that’s pretty useful to a lot of people, including terrorists. I think that is a pretty vague bar, which I think clearly hasn’t been challenged properly before. If this is the first time they’ve tried to charge an anarchist under this legislation, and I think they’re going to have a problem doing so, but only if we make it difficult for them. So that means writing to him, it means talking about his case and the case of others who have got punitive sentences for ******** charges because they state could not bring a sound case against them on terror legislation. So:
Toby was originally charged with providing a service enabling others to access terrorist publications, with fundraising for terrorist purposes, and with two counts of possession of information likely to be useful to a terrorist. He pleaded not guilty, the cops weren’t able to produce any evidence, and the prosecution was forced to drop these charges on October 1st 2021.
In the end, Toby Shone was sentenced to 3 years 9 months in prison for 8 drug offenses on October 13, 2021. The ‘drugs’ were psychedelics and medicinal plants found at two of the four properties raided in November 2020, all collective spaces. He served 8 months of this sentence on remand at HMP Wandsworth and is currently held in HMP Bristol. He is due for release sometime between August and December 2022.
However, Detective Chief Inspector Sion Margrie and posh-boy prosecutors Dan Porson-Pounds and Thomas Coke-Smythe continue their persecution of Toby by applying for an Order which would control and monitor his daily movements, his contact with others, residence, finances, devices, and so on. It also demands precise information be given to the cops of all his friends, contacts, loved ones, acquaintances, and any business clients. His bank account and access to phone, internet and storage devices would be monitored, and he cannot use those from anyone else. He would not be able to use encryption technology and is only allowed 50 pounds in cash, forcing him to be cashless to be able to track his financial footprint. If he stays somewhere overnight he needs to tell the cops where, when, with who and why. If someone comes to visit he must also register who, when and why. Any work opportunities, how much he earns and who he meets must also be reported. Basically, this order would put him under a form of house arrest and force him to be an accomplice in his own surveillance and that of his friends.
Remind ourselves what was he charged for drugs. This is not the kind of you know post sentence measure you put in for somebody who’s in for drugs, certainly not for possession of their own ******* drugs, not ****. They’re going to sell.
Serious Crime Prevention Orders are often used as ‘stealth sentencing’ when cops don’t get their way the first time. The Order would last at least five years after his release from prison, and can be renewed after that time. Toby could face another five years in prison if he breaches it, which of course the cops are desperately hoping will be the case. The order is designed to be breached, as the conditions and restrictions are so insane and so many, it would be impossible not to breach them at some point. If his friends refuse to collaborate they could also face criminal persecution and a prison term of 12 months for obstruction.
The cops argue that this control order is needed because of Toby’s alternative lifestyle and beliefs. Criminalising a lifestyle to justify a SCPO is not only outrageous but a very dangerous precedent. Another dangerous precedent is having a SCPO used against activists.
Wildly dangerous and it has been phrased elsewhere as the these alternative lifestyle. The beliefs as his anarchist beliefs being an anarchist. That is the. That’s the thing that legitimises this measure. That is the actual argument they are putting forward. They’re not even pretending. To believe in anything like an open political discourse or. Facing any actual challenge, they’re. Just the state is a pussy. So any challenge, however small and however disempowered, it’s got to be shut down and we’ll talk to our experience of what we believe to be more front end state repression tactics that could easily be used to fit people up. Though currently we feel that what the police are doing to us is merely a measure to frustrate our activities confiscation, much like fines is class war because you can. If you confiscate something from a rich person, they can just replace it. You can confiscate from people who don’t have the money knowing they can’t afford to replace it, and you can predict the kind of results that your action will have. They predict that they will cripple the channel. They kind of, sort of. Have and we’re going to have to be reliant on anybody who is prepared to support us to build that back up. And anybody who is prepared to support us in raising the profile of this apparent targeting of us. Is the only other way we have any chance of getting our shit back. Is if people notice that this case is not normal. I mean the local cops themselves describe it as normal procedure not being followed. It’s weak as fuck, which is why I don’t think they’re gonna try and fit us up because it wouldn’t work. The evidence chain everything’s broken. As I was saying, and it’s some, but nicely here:
It is obvious that this Order has nothing to do with the drug charges that Toby has been convicted for, and for which he is doing more than enough time now. Instead, the Order has everything to do with the terrorism charges the cops couldn’t find any proof of. It has everything to do with him being involved in the anarchist movement.
As is obvious from the new policing legislation being hurried through by the authoritarian British regime,
And it is obvious from the new policing legislation being pushed through the Commons that the British regime. Intends on what I think it was. Liberty, called Wholesale regime change, that’s the way they describe the Lost Queen’s speech. In which they outlined the police crime, sentencing courts bill, the police state bill as we like to call it, and it was clear that this was a more naked authoritarianism that was going to pretend that it didn’t. Seek to maintain an unfair footing with the competition. Because they can’t compete with actual idealism, and believing in something better. No, keep your ******* head down and be glad for what you’ve got. You’re all right. Jack’s a **** everyone else that will never really compete with. Hope if we had the platform and the vehicle for the voice and the feeling that it is in so many of us. Which is why they have to maintain the unfair footing to undermine the activity, to ensure that that argument never is offered as an alternative because. How does their system compare? And would we not take a chance? Now is the long shot not ******* worth it at this stage? This system is unjustifiable and the way in which it seeks to sustain itself. That is the true mark of the enemy, and I think one of the more galvanizing things because while I believe that the state is a coward and it will use these measures, I also think that it is likely that you know. Extreme powers, authoritarian powers. You want to not use those insofar as possible because you don’t really want to draw attention to the fact you have them, and so if they are taking, they actually perceive a threat. And their right to the discontent is ******* high, but we’re disorganized. And for all the straw manning of you know, basic like half decent principles as the hard left, the hard left need to step up and say you know what? If you’re going to bring us into the conversation. Thank you because we do have a proposal for you all. How about not this? How about we don’t require such repression to maintain a system, because surely any system that requires that is not worth keeping.
In Summary
I’m getting pretty tired at this point, which is for the record, the main thing that has limited the output of our work, not the interference of the police and or whether the material impact or the mental impact of that. It is just. Bad ******* health, you know? This that’s been the primary reason, so I’m getting a bit tired, so I will summarize.
We do believe that we’re being targeted. We don’t see another explanation for police turning up. You know, in the morning they spend a team with tech forensic van and. They check all the devices they tell us they don’t find anything on anything, so these ones, we didn’t find anything on so you know you can keep those. But hang on these ones. We didn’t find anything on those, so we’re going to take those away and look for some more we’re going to look some more. So I think the reason I don’t think they’re gonna try and fit us up is because it’s not gonna work considering anything that they claim to find now they will have suddenly appeared by their own word after they found nothing the last time we touched those machines.
So no, it just seems like a way of frustrating our work because we don’t have the ******* money to replace that kind of **** and. Why would they target us? We’re a small channel. I get that. I don’t necessarily think it’s because I am an effective threat in any way on my own at all. I think it it was partly partnership with somebody who has been a radical anarchist. Probably on one of their lists for a hell of a lot longer than I’ve been politically active has got something to do with it. But I think it’s. If not, in what? We’re able to generate right now it is in. The way that I fully intended to make myself a target. Am I being targeted well that would only be my plan working because I have always intended to make myself a ******* martyr, I won’t pretend otherwise. It’s something useful I can do. I suffer a lot to live in this world and I can’t stand the suffering I see around me. And if I feel like I can do something towards that. That justifies me putting up with my own agony, physical mental just all the ******* time that’s the. Truth of it. So yeah. The thing is, is whatever I am or I’m not capable of. Anybody listening to him knows they’d have to ******* kill me to make me stop.
Is that why I was targeted rather than anything I’ve done, but rather what I’m clearly prepared to do. I don’t know, but our preparedness hasn’t changed. And I’m happy to argue our case because their case makes no *** **** sense. What they come claiming at our door? What they come looking for? It makes no sense and they’re decision making on evidence. Yeah, so I don’t know what they exactly planned on doing after stealing all our **** and basically just detaching themselves from any route of finding out what the Hell’s happening considering no local cop was even present.
Not sure what their plan is, but if they want to try and fit us up with information. By their own word, will have only appeared after the last time we touched those fucking machines. Yeah, good luck to them, but remind yourself, the state doesn’t actually value your life and it is only by defending one another. By raising the profile of the struggles and the. I am. Attempted suppression by the state that we can really counter it. So we’ve tried to do that for Toby today. You know solidarity and love to him and all the others in prison and ask for your help. Also in calling out whatever the ****. They think they’re doing at odor, and it’s also a warning for other people to decide if you’re actually serious about revolutionary work, because it looks like this is a state that’s serious about coming after you if you. Bar now we’re not backing down and I’m not saying that people who are currently in this stance would, but you know, we’ve always said that we would never lie to anybody about the risks of. Deciding revolution was the answer. Yeah, this is a real risk. You got to consider and we should all be tightening up use of encrypted services for if you want to talk to your comrades on your discord server about anything that just might not be great to have on there, just have another channel on the signal that you can do that.
We have also had some harder weird cyber activity to explain because it’s not entirely clear that it is connected to the official state. You know police turning up at our door, taking all our ****, but it is hard to see how it wouldn’t be. It would be strange coincidence to have been targeted by some cyber means by some other group at the same time as the state. Also we got hacked by location in Saint Petersburg, Russia. One time, one time. But I don’t know what that’s about either, on that note. That’s about it.
Mastadon
Source: <kolektiva.social/@weareintolerant>
Dec 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION — @weareintolerant
I want to [REDACTED] cops. They’ve attempted to frame us for CP, Rosa tried to kill herself, luckily I got her to hospital in time. I’ve spent most of my life fighting fascists and now they just accuse me of what the police are framing us for. This means I have to give up my life’s work because of the fucking state. I want to [REDACTED] cops. I want to become a serial [REDACTED] of cops. If they are willing to kill us in this way, I’m perfectly happy to put the fucking animals [REDACTED].
They wanted to fuck around, now they can find out.
Fuck the state.
Fuck the police.
Fuck shit up.
Nov 26, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION — @weareintolerant
This is killing both of us. The accusations against us are enough pressure for Rosa to have not slept for days. I worry about her so much, what this is doing to her. All I can do is try to support her as she supports me. Solidarity from our comrades goes only so far and, much appreciated though the solidarity we are getting is, given how small that support has been, more solidarity really would make a difference.
The fact the revolutionary left is being attacked should make you sit up and take notice. We need your help in spreading the word of this disgusting attack on freedom of political speech. Shout it from the rooftops, tell your friends, put it on social media, if not for our sakes then for your own as an activist. #weareinnocent wareintolerant.online
Nov 25, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION — @weareintolerant
When I was a teenager I hung with an anti-capitalist crowd and we did illegalist action, stealing cars from hire companies and robbing corporate chains. We discovered a young girl who was being sold every night in London by her own mother and a gang to satisfy the mothers drug addictions. We broke into their home and took the girl with the intention of getting her to a safe house in Brussels. The van we had was searched at the docks, she was found and we were charged with kidnap of a minor. As far as I know the girl was fostered and her abuse ended. I spent years in prison for stopping her abuse.
I have helped anyone in any circumstance whenever I could. When my kids were born I started my own plastering business and worked primarily on social housing and public buildings. Years later as an electrician I built primary schools, secondary schools, university buildings, student housing, social housing, shopping centres, hospitals, anything but private investment building. I have always been a socialist, to the extent my electrical business was run collectively and I took the same wage as my unskilled workers. The allegations made against me are patently false looking at any aspect of my life. I have fought against oppression and exploitation at every turn. Being in possesion of images of children being exploited and abused would be entirely anti-thetical to my very being.
To believe the cops when they are proven liars and to have doubts as to whether to support us as comrades in trouble is not the action of a true comrade. The state has proven itself capable and willing of anything you can think of, so why is it unthinkable they could do this to us? We need your solidarity as comrades in need. Please support us and spread the word. #weareintolerant #weareinnocent
Nov 24, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION boosted
emptycrown
weareintolerant
Kingslayer
@emptycrown
@weareintolerant It’s good to stay connected, especially with the Twitter crackdowns. I’m sure my account’s bound to be closed for some bullshit reason soon after it comes back online, so the move here is something that if I didn’t do it now, by the time I would have it’d have been a lot harder to get the word around to other comrades.
Current forecast is showing signs that the provincial gov’s gonna really start fucking people over soon. Current actions on my part lean towards getting locals informed on how to do street-level first-aid, as well as gathering support against Danielle Smith (I live in Alberta, Canada, for those wondering). The future looks bleak here too, but if my time international has anything to say for my survival, it’s that I’m never going down without one hell of a fight. Furthermore, as long as I’m alive, you can expect I’ll be there supporting the people, inciting them against the government, breaking the conditioning of the capitalist propaganda.
Should all go “according to plan,” that is to say we become a liberated anarchist-occupied territory, we should have the resources to start expanding our efforts outwards. We should have a substantial air-navy, though the extent of how far we can fly really depends on what kinds of skywhales we’ve got (read: big, long-distance cargo aircraft). Hopefully it shouldn’t take more than a few years for us to make landfall in the UK, though if at all possible I can try getting a mobile unit to you sooner than that. I want to keep my promise of bringing justice to your cases, especially because I’ve seen the negativity and hostility of the bobbies first- and second-hand during my time in the UK.
For now, though, I guess all we can do is occupy the time we’ve got with revolutionary preparations. See you around.
Nov 23, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
Ellis spoke earlier of fighting the cops if/when the come to arrest him/us for these false charges on faked evidence.
I need to say now, as it won’t be possible after, that we will forgive you if it’s only after that blaze of glory/ blue suicide that you take notice of what we have been facing. Please defend us in death.
The sacrifice is already made, at least this way there’s more chance something will be done with it by comades of the cause we were fighting for.
This way the real reason we were targeted, the basis needed to understand the truth that #weareinnocent, will never be erased. Death first and Truth forever.
This is a lie about us that is intolerable to live with and we will not concede to a corrupt process conducted by our ideological enemy: the state.
#weareinnocent
Nov 23, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
I’ve had a while now to come to terms with the fact I’m going to be killed in prison as a sex offender when I have done nothing wrong. It’s what the state obviously wanted or they wouldn’t have done it like this. My biggest fear is for my wife, the beautiful Rosa, and my children. They must have known this would not just ruin our lives but that of my children too. My children back me to the hilt with my innocence of the allegations, but will others believe them when I’m gone? Or will they be hounded and bullied because of what the state has done to us? Genuinely thinking of molotovs when they turn up here, with catapults, knives and brass knuckles too, how many can we take with us?
Rosa tried to take her life the other night. Her only regret is that it would have been quiet and there were no cops going with her. I feel the same way. There is no happy ending here. I die, Rosa either dies or goes to hospital for the rest of her life.
Fuck the state.
Fuck the police.
Fuck shit up.
Please tell people about this, people need to know the lengths the state will go to accept the lengths we have to take to get rid of them.
#weareinnocent #weareintolerant.
Nov 20, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
So it turns out the police don’t want to charge either of us yet and have passed their “evidence” to CPS. If CPS think there is a case (considering it was the state planted it I can guess their answer) then charges will follow. Obviously, as their “evidence” is so inconclusive as to make the cops unsure as to whether to press charges shows further that we are innocent of this accusation. Fuck the state. Fuck the police. Fuck shit up. #weareinnocent #weareintolerant
Nov 20, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION — @weareintolerant
The lack of boosts on our dire situation has Rosa very upset. The fact we have been set up by the state and accused of possesion of CP by them, with the very real possibility of up to ten years in prison for something we are not just innocent of, but have been fighting as a form of oppression for years, decades in my case is hard enough to have to come to terms with. Our blog has the detail and facts of the case. The fact that so many on the left have ignored this advancement in tactics by the state is dangerous at worst and short-sighted at the least. What they are doing needs shouting from the rooftops. Spread the word, please. If not for our sake, for the sake of other revolutionary leftists. #weareinnocent #weareintolerant
Nov 19, 2022
@weareintolerant — SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
#weareinnocent, I promise you, supporting us is the right thing to do.
If you don’t think is wrong for me to stand by Ellis because I believe in his innocence then it wouldn’t be wrong for you to do the same.
I know you’ve never met him but no movement defending someone who asserts that they have been wrongly accused is informed by everyone involved having met the individual. It has always been that case that you decide whether you belive and support them but listening to the people who have. They all trust him too, including his kids one of which has said so publicly. (Which is very brave and therefore not expected from all of them as they also believe that the state started this fit up. They don’t all love that we are “extreme” enough to warrant state retaliation like that but they do agree we are)
It is a little perplexing that the approach to this situation we are in is being treated so differently than past cases where defendants maintained their innocence and people supported them and sought I help them exonerate themselves.
I think part of the problem is that we are heavily shadow banned so we don’t get much engagement and then others think there is an actual reason for that and therefore are hesitant… maybe just ask? Because there is nothing that indicates his guilt other than the word of cops.
Don’t draw conclusions from lacklustre engagement. Don’t do that because that is not an assessment of our innocence, merely our reach. Obviously this is not deduction and no conclusions drawn on such a basis can tell you anything about truth so, you know, don’t do that.
They did this before we could build enough support to better deal with this, don’t bloody hand it to them by deciding this doesn’t matter because we aren’t big names, that’s literally the aim of nipping us in the bud so early.
So far I have resisted the psyop but it seems our potential allies in this are not managing to do so. Please see through it, see who we are. We are your comrades, no fucking way are either of us what they claim.
— Rosa Langsdale
#weareinnocent
Learn more at https://weareintolerant.online][https://weareintolerant.online
Rosa & The Intolerant Left
Death first & truth forever. Not one step back. #weareinnocent FRAMED BY THE STATE for daring to non-anonymously and unironically call ourselves revolutionaries
Nov 16, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
And so another day of waiting for the cops to knock starts. Take heed, they are targeting revolutionaries and anti-state actors. Toby Shone was first, we appear to be next. Their terrorist charges didn’t stick with Toby, so they gave him 4 years for personal possession of drugs. They aren’t even trying terror charges with us, they went straight to wrongly accusing us of possession of child porn so they could take our work. We’re fighting this all day every day and need as much support as we can garner. Please tell people about this and spread the word, but most importantly: Lock your shit down!
Nov 13, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION @weareintolerant
holy shit we just remembered! when we were raided it was just about a week after we connected with comrades of Toby Shone and supporters of 325 No State!!!!!!
if you don’t know about Toby Shone and operation Adream, you don’t know (you bloody should know about Toby!) but this is massive!
Every aspect of this “investigation” fucking stinks but bloody hell, can’t believe I had forgotten that stench!
Ellis and I hadn’t spoken about the raid itself, with everything going on now, in ages but he remembered and, checking, he’s right! THIS IS BIG
Not the only bit of sus timing working on an info dump for Organise! atm but awaiting some things until we do to get info as accurate as possible. (police keep changing their story) #weareinnocent
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION @weareintolerant
We made a choice that would see whatever the state would to to non anon anarchist agitating for full revolution, happen next. Tbf I’m not sure there’s anyone else that fits every aspect that description so this is obviously true. What’s stopping people believing it?
We could not have known it’s form but the choice makes perfect sense when viewed though the lens of a psyop to make me kill him. It’s as old as time, killing revolutionary’s This is evil genius this new twist makes killing agents of change insidious and their hands “clean”
How to kill revolutionaries in love? engineer a murder suicide.
1. Accuse one of being the kind of person the other have been a victim of.
Possible responses by me (my mind can be predicted on these matter specifically what with art and poetry about sexual trauma and my violent intolerance for abusers is well documented, for decades)
1. I, an anarchist somehow believe he is guilty because cops say so. (Based evidence obtained is cop tech labs) Mmmmn nah! That was never gunna work
2. Just uncertain, for real even if I just had a sense that it might be true I’d be out of here and given my ptsd could well have killed him over how I don’t sit well with uncertainly ffs.
3. They get me so triggered and twisted enough to belive their lies that I definitely kill him and then probably myself.
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
Ellis here: If you see my posts and think they may be a little too spicy, remember that a) with climate change there is a time limit. b) with automation of the workplace there is a time limit to worker action. And c) I don’t know how long I personally have before I'm charged with something horrific and/or you never hear from me again. The time for action is now.
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
He’s away now! All of that 👍 yes to fucking all of it. Not one step back.
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
Collectivise and organise your workplace, strike, whether to improve your own material conditions or the material conditions of other strikers. Call for a General Strike and when it happens, organise guerrilla workins, with the bosses kept out at the picket lines and distribute the profits from a month long work in to the workers and picketers equally. All those not on picket lines or not on workins riot, protest, take the police attention away from the workins and strikes. If we control the industry and services, they control nothing and we take the government down. Fuck the state, but be prepared for a fight!
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
Oh my god, I love him so much 🥲♥️
There is undeniably a new dimention to our intolerance but this system always deserved it. We are so fucking angry
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
Antifa violence? Fuck yeah! Are states fascist and deserve the serious attention of Antifa globally? Fucking right. Lamp-posts exist and they will sell us the rope; the only private/public partnership I approve of. [REDACTED]. Fuck state and capitalist repression and their lickspittles and guard dogs the police.
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
God I love this man ♥️ great to let him off the leash in this way
(Image one, why I used to take the lead in comms. Image 2, literally how I started flirting with him. 😅
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
Bloody hell Im glad Twitter got Trussed actually!
Ellis, the bloody boomer that he is, never used Twitter but he’s contributing more than memes (irrefutably good taste, you’ll love ‘em) the to the feed now :).
There was a bloody good reason why I took such a lead on comms but… this is almost certainly our endgame at this point. That choice was made FOR us and whatever anyone else, what the state does, it ain’t our fault we will respond to that.
Not just “not one step back”
No, now we lean in, we square the fuck up to power, like birds playing chicken with aeroplanes, and spit in its face.
Just like I did that cop that wouldn’t tell me the answer to a very simple question “WHERE TF IS MY HUSBAND YOU PIG BASTARDS!?”
First, she escalates by accusing me of spitting on her fellow pig when I didn’t, so, in the same way that we lean in generally now, my response was to think “lady, that’s how you get yourself spat at on purpose” and then did just that.
Lol got away with a caution for assault of a cop. looks smug:happy_anarcat:
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant
More fuel for the fire...
Nov 12, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION
@weareintolerant@kolektiva.social
We are in the middle of being framed by the state, expecting charges soon.
I don’t have the energy or emotional strength to advocate for us more than I am but I know more needs to be done. If you do want to help us here are some ways in which you could.*
*Though please do feel absolutely free (please) to contact us via dm (not sure how that works here) or via our open email weareintolerant@ mail.com
Anyway here are the general categories of help.
1. Reaching out.
There are so many calls we should be making but the stress and trauma (I have PTSD around this kind of shit we’ve been accused of which is why you can believe me when I tell you neither Ellis or I are guilty of this) of telling people for the first time what we have been framed for is obviously impeding that important work to advocate for us. Please, if you can, introduce potential allies to our awful plight. Our DMs are open and we would obviously handle it all from there. It’s just talking to people and orgs about it for the first time is the hardest.
2. Research.
We need research help if any of those who have been wanting to help have the time. Do you know about Joshua Schulte and the Vault7 leak? He was first charged with possession of CP. We need info on any analogous cases; state enemies smeared with charged of CP possession.
3. Solidarity.
Just vocal support means the fucking world so even if you don’t have the time to help in material ways we still desperately need and appreciate you.
We are so grateful for everyone who is trying to help us by shining a light on what’s happening, not only is it the the first step in the efforts that represent our only chance to not see us destroyed by this, it’s the only thing that’s keeping us from breaking down completely. We are powered by nothing more than love for each other and longing for revolution, it wouldn’t be enough now though without your solidarity. There are no words for our gratitude and the love we feel for all of you.
A first port of call for more info on all of this would be this first blogpost abut the situation after I spent 12 hours in custody for charges which included the outright lie that I made threats to kill Ellis, they have been proven to have lied and the charges were dropped. Trust NOTHING from the cops, especially not in a case that so far had him like this weareintolerant.online/blog/ACAB-update
Nov 11, 2022
SOS FACING STATE RETALIATION @weareintolerant
Civil unrest is coming. 😌😊
Full video: The rich are getting ready, are you?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=IgLlFi1qsMo
Aug 3, 2022
Source: <x.com/rosa_langsdale/status/1554884147096834050>
Rosa & Ellis Langsdale
@rosa_langsdale
Increasing productivity will not raise wages, it hasn’t done since the 70’s.
Atop the inherent exploitation of wage theft, from which ALL profit is derived, this system them does this and for 30 years we have tolerated it.
No more.
The Marxist left (the actual left) needs coherence around this. The measures of wage theft that exist only define it as stuff like unpaid overtime but we know that the profit is only possible with the workers labor so all profit is exploitation.
Owning the tools, the means of production is no justification for the theft of labor value. There is no justification.
Always demand defenders of capitalism justify this system.
You will find a fundamentally different conception of what justice is.