Title: True Crime and Ted Kaczynski with Jake Hanrahan
Date: May 16, 2022

Jake Hanrahan is a journalist and filmmaker, and the creator of Popular Front.

Video Episodes & Bonus Episodes: https://patreon.com/lowres.

LowRes Instagram Page: https://www.instagram.com/lowreswunderbred

Hans on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/hwordname

LOWRES: Hey this is movies or podcasts about the act of cinema and Whitley. Of course his hearts.

HANS: Yes, I'm very, very full, 'cause I had to shovel my foot in like 5 minutes before we started recording. This so I will not be.

LOWRES: Able to yeah houses on his.

HANS: Bring my launcher.

LOWRES: Lunch break right now. Jake, so sure. This is an extremely early show. For us, how are you doing?

JAKE: Yeah, I'm alright. Man, I'm good. Thanks busy but I'm always good.

LOWRES: Well I like. The background, did you do that? That drawing of that that alien in the background?

JAKE: No, it's a lie actually look. It was a light.

LOWRES: OK, you know, I've been really big on the creepypastas like you recommended some good ones to me.

JAKE: I ******* love them man.

LOWRES: Right?

JAKE: I go to sleep listening to them. It's kind of probably not good for my. Brain but it just. Zones me out.

LOWRES: Yeah, it that's all I listen to after like the. Hours of eight or 11:00 o'clock like.

JAKE: Yeah yes son.

LOWRES: Once the lights are off, it's just like alright, I gotta see. I gotta try and dig up some like Reddit posts and sound legitimate enough. And I get ****** ***.

JAKE: Yeah you have. To have, like a little bit like in when they're too ridiculous, it's like Mark, but it's like maybe if there's 1% maybe I'm involved you.

LOWRES: Know yeah 100% C and as soon as I got all there was an old woman at my window and she had the biggest smile. And then she had a knife in her. I'm like I'm loud this.

JAKE: Yeah, yeah.

LOWRES: ******* this is fake. Come on. There's some child story. Time I'm fed up with this.

JAKE: Seriously though, like some of the best storytelling I've seen on the Internet, is like weird greentexts, you know, like some of them are ******* these days. There's not been a good one for a while, but like you know, maybe like 10 years ago. Just incredible stuff like really cool stuff.

UNKNOWN: Do you?

LOWRES: Have a favorite among those.

UNKNOWN: How much?

JAKE: There was one I can't remember the name of it, but it's about it's kind of. It's about like a house that no one can find, but when they're in there, they kind of can't get out of it, which sounds like obviously it's like ********, but the way it's done, it's told throughout it was actually, it wasn't a creepypasta. From 4 Chan. But it was told throughout like it was on like BB message boards and it was told through like exerts from emails. It was kind of like the original AIG. I'll have to find the name of it and send it to you. It's about 3 hours long, but it's ******* brilliant and it never ended. The guy that did it just gave up. So no. One actually knows what happened which.

LOWRES: I think is kind of cool. Yeah, I didn't even know what Meurgey was. Until I started getting into this rabbit hole and then I'm like, Oh yeah, that then I just dismissed like half of the ones I believed before that right? It's just in a. Every ******* game online.

JAKE: You're like why? Would anyone go to this effort and you know? OK yeah yeah.

LOWRES: So you know well, I've also been on like a true crime quick kick lately. We did a show recently on angst, which was on Warner Nesic. I don't know if. You know who that? He's just a basic psychopath. Yeah, it was, uh, it was.


LOWRES: It was. I don't know if it would be your cup of tea necessarily. It goes a. Little too too deep into horror, maybe has what do you think?

JAKE: Love true crime.

LOWRES: Do you think it's more horror, more true crime?

UNKNOWN: I don't smoke.

HANS: That's more true crime. I don't think there's. It's not horrific because he's not a ruthless killer. He's kind of sloppy, is kind of dumb. He's kind of not great at killing, but he's he is crazy and the story's told through his voice. So it's his narration justifying what he does, so it's kind of it's kind of cool. The way that that it's done. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if he. Goes into a horror game.

UNKNOWN: No, I mean it it gets.

HANS: It's kind of.

LOWRES: It's bloody, very bloody.

HANS: It's funny what? Yeah OK that one scene but when he's trying to like hurt other people it's kind of funny because he's just not very.

LOWRES: Good at it. It was a. It was banned in you all throughout Europe I. Guess in 19. 82 When it was released, it was, uh, it. I I found it very funny. It's on to be. I don't know if you guys have. To be. In the UK it's like the. Free, it's it's a it's an. Under rated service but.

JAKE: Indian or something, right?

LOWRES: I I don't know, I have no idea, but ** is a pretty solid flick in my opinion. Also the dog lives, which is always, uh. 'cause I was very convinced that dog was gonna get ******* stomped out.

UNKNOWN: Oh good.

LOWRES: There's a there's a family dog. The dog makes it through. So that's. That's always great.

UNKNOWN: Oh wait, did.

JAKE: You say X or angst.

LOWRES: Actions no, don't watch ** is horrible.

JAKE: Yeah, I saw you guys talking about that.

LOWRES: Yeah no, I recommend it.

JAKE: That's ****, yeah.

LOWRES: One time I said Jake, you're going to really enjoy this tie W film this sacrament and I logged on letterboxd this half a star this is. Big ******* piece of. It I was like. I couldn't have been more wrong. Yeah, we are talking about uh 2022 film today, though we're talking about and this is like a big old redo because we did what like 2 hours Hans originally on TDC and then I found out my computer audio was was plugged in. It was not my microphone that was a big waste of time. Where we? Talk about that, but I also want to get into like just Ted Kaczynski in general. Ted Kaczynski media which is maybe like a good branchpoint from the creepypasta. True crime stuff. I wasn't he just diagnosed with cancer recently.


JAKE: Yeah, yeah he he wrote some letters. Someone wrote him a letter and they were like all you know. I hope you'll look forward to whatever and he was like, no, I won't because I'm dying of cancer.

UNKNOWN: Wow really like yeah.

JAKE: It was just like no, I won't. I've got cancer and it's terminal like it was just very like to. The point I was.

HANS: Like **** man yeah really odd Pigsticker responded chief.

JAKE: I love people.

HANS: It's crazy. It's like.

LOWRES: Do you think that? I mean how well? Versed on just Ted Kaczynski media or adaptations or or whatever are you 'cause. I know there. Was the the manhunt show was very popular a few years back and I? Watched a couple of episodes of that. I I have, I'm not. I didn't see the entire series, but it was more of a peripheral thing to me because my girlfriend was watching it and it was just absorbing bits and pieces, but it seemed very just like basic cable. You know, I don't know.

JAKE: Yeah it was all right. I I I so I've read I I got really interested in Ted Kaczynski long time ago and then there was this kind of Ted Kaczynski revival about five years ago. Now, which I wrote an article about for wired where, like there was kind of a renewed interest in his kind of ideology and. You know the attack. Some stuff, and so I got really into it at that and I I kind of had read the I'd read his manifesto before and then I read it again. And then I started reading like all of his work. Basically technological society. I think no technological slavery like all these other books need written. So I got quite into it, not from like. Wasn't like, oh. Yeah, I believe this, but there were certain. Elements that I'm like. Yeah, he's actually really white here. You know what I mean. And and I know that even some of his biggest critics kind of have to admit like he was kind of right with this. So quite a lot I read into and then yeah off the back of that. I kind of watched quite a bit. Anything that was like. You know Ted Kaczynski fictionalized or whatever. I was like, oh, I'm gonna watch that like I'm interested in it. Like even the cowboy bebop like you know episode where it's very obviously based on Ted Kaczynski, Teddy boy. I think the episode is called. I watched that full series that you're on about Manhunt. It was kind of like lame. But it actually. Kind of got to quite a good. Point where there were certain elements, I thought he was gonna do a real cowardice like this guy is bad. Everything he did was bad, which don't get me wrong. You know, blowing up random people is obviously bad, but they they kind of went. They took like a little left turn at one point and kind of at least the main character is kind of like yeah he he was right about certain things. And they really did it in quite a clever way. There's a weird kind of siemer. They're at stoplight where the the guy is driving and there's no other cars there. And he's like why? Like he can see for miles, he's like why the **** am I waiting? Because the red light told me too, which you know it might seem kind of childish. But when you watch it, the point is there, you know. So yeah, it was all right, and there's been some decent stuff. Been some terrible stuff, but yeah, it's there's a.

LOWRES: Lot out there. Is there anything that stands out is like? Especially bad for. Trying to paint a vision.

JAKE: I, I mean I, I can't even remember the name of it, but you know there there is. A lot of like kind of late 2000s. UM, probably like Discovery Channel or history channel documentaries, you know, like Unabomber, the maniac or whatever you know, it is like it's like we get it.

UNKNOWN: Yeah yeah, yeah.

JAKE: You know he killed people. He bombed like that's, you know. There's only so many times you can be like. It's like we get that now. Let's find out the very interesting parts of why he did it, you know, and they never really get there, so there's a lot of that. There's like very pro cop stuff, which is like, yeah, it's fine, whatever which is kind of funny because the cops couldn't find him until his brother. Based on him, but yeah, you know there's some rubbish hit like that, but generally, like for example, this film like Ted Koppel was really good. I I really enjoyed.

LOWRES: It well before, what do you think about his brother snitching on him? 'cause I have mixed feelings about that. I kind of. You know I want him like yeah look, he should have been killing people, but that's that's your brother.

JAKE: Yeah, I know right?

LOWRES: I mean.

JAKE: There's not like I'm like, yeah, of course you, you know you know this guy is like hitting random targets to be honest by the end. A bit, but then there's that thing. Inside you where. It's like oh man, you can't sleep with. Your brother, right?

HANS: Yeah yeah, well wasn't it that his wife was like his? Overbearing bits that would. Yeah, of course, yeah. Well of course. And emasculated man. Yeah Mrs. Mani and has to marry his mom and then yeah.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, yeah.

JAKE: Yeah, they they. Were going to like live in the cabin like they were both going to live that lifestyle like you know, like outdoorsman, that kind of stuff. And then I think the brother just got with the wife and was like ****. That 'cause obviously you. Know what I mean like? It's probably my license. Have like a family and ship, then just let you know like **** in the. Every day, but not not to say that I. I think there's anything wrong with that lifestyle. I think it's actually great, but like you know, it's quite clear obvious why this his brother. It just wasn't for him. You know, like right ******* about wife now whatever. So I think I think that would caused a lot of resentment. And yeah, apparently it was like you know, the brother and the wife both found the the handwriting and she's like you got a garage. Amendment, like get rid of him.

LOWRES: What did you think of Sharlto Copley as the Ted Kaczynski character? In this film 'cause I thought he did a a very good job. He was probably. I mean you had to have an actor capable. Of like being able to carry a weird amount of range, and I think Sharlto Copley, a dude who's been slept. On for for. I mean, maybe a decade now since he first popped up in District 9 and hasn't really been used well in many movies and this kind of just allows them to flex his acting muscles a little bit throughout this stretch of time.

JAKE: Well, I I didn't even realize that it was that guy until like quite a while into the the film. I was like I know this actor like this guy. I think he's amazing man. I thought he was so good and he actually plays like Ted Kaczynski really well like the voice is on point. The kind of like frenetic energy that he has. You know like. He's kind of all over the place from what I've read anyway. You know from what I understand him to be like and and he wasn't playing. I felt like he didn't play a lunatic, he just played like a guy that's got some issues. You know anything which is just, you know, take this is he wasn't a lunatic lunatic. In that sense, he was very politically motivated. It wasn't like mental illness motivating in in my opinion, it was a very specific set of goals which he you know he stood by for his whole life. So I I felt like. He'd really he got that, you know. I mean, he's like this is like a weird guy. But you know he's not a total maniac. I loved it, man, I thought he was really good. The best, the best representation I've seen. Like that that. Manhunt, Unabomber Ted and that is too like Darth Vader Ish. You know, like kind. Of a bit evilly. And he's like, no man.

LOWRES: What do they get for that it was? Paul Bettany wasn't it wasn't, yeah.

HANS: Yeah yeah, that guy. Yeah, from from LA.

LOWRES: Yeah, not. He look. He's not bad, but he's not Sharlto Copley yeah and Jonathan Copley look sharp. He's not even amazing but you know in this film I think he's very good.

HANS: I think the. The problem with Charlton Copley feel like it's the projects that he's picked or that they picked him for because a lot of them are very, very cartoony. Very hard to believe like that old.

LOWRES: Oh yeah, he's Horrible and he. Becomes like a 2D Looney Tunes character in in that.

JAKE: Really, I've not seen the remake.

UNKNOWN: I don't.

HANS: No, it's it's fine fine.

JAKE: It's destruction of brother. Yeah yeah, I love you.

HANS: Yeah, but here here there's a little wrench with what he does, 'cause there's it goes from. Uh, just him by himself and his ideas or whatever, but then he also has these magic moments too. In between where you don't really know if he's actually seeing the things that he's seeing or not and and the the the quiet moments I think were the the ones where you you really see. Hear his performance brief and and show like a little bit of more range. Even though how many lines could it have in this movie? Not even what like 20 maybe 50 lines if that like he doesn't really talk to anyone, it's just mostly on his own.

JAKE: Or in other words.

HANS: But it works. Yeah yeah, yeah.

JAKE: I think he played like frustration really well as well. I get not dumb. A ******* mail bomber. But I I get like get that level of like frustration over something that's no one else cares about. You know what I mean? When I watch that you have and I get that like ******* like the receiver on the farm worker down. But you know, like the things that shouldn't bother a normal person like you know. And I feel like he got that quite well. I thought that was good. But yeah, I don't know why I liked him a lot I I think I haven't seen him in anything since District 9 to be on his sore. I don't.

LOWRES: Know he's like normally well he's done a couple of films with Neil Blomkamp. He did chappie.

JAKE: Oh fun.

LOWRES: I didn't. I didn't watch travel. That was what was it Die Antwoord they.

JAKE: Die Antwoord uh

LOWRES: Were transferring to like in.

JAKE: Bucking stories come out about them today. They've been like enslaving children, like they're ******* insane blown out Jesus.

LOWRES: Christ every single show we do with you.

JAKE: Yeah, like that.

LOWRES: It's so some somehow comes back to enslaving children. You know, I I'd be remiss to not note that you know we're talking about Ted Kaczynski, very anti technology or or yeah man and today is a big day for Twitter 'cause you're a blue check. Are you worried at all about this? This Elon must take over at all, do you? Think you're going? To lose that precious blue shack, Jake.

JAKE: Probably I mean it's like whatever my I mean. It's just ******** out the ********. I mean the idea that Elon Musk is a harboring of. Free speech is hilarious. Uhm, you know he he's done. Some of the biggest work to stop people in his warehouse is speaking out about the mistreatment of them via him. You know, he actually stopped a journalist buying a Tesla once because the journal slagged him off. Like online, like the guy is an absolute baby man like I I very much see this being the end of Twitter. But one thing that is good, it's upsetting, like hyper liberal. Like you know people that really hold the blue check in high regard like then people are terrified that's funny. And if he brings Trump back on be so funny.

LOWRES: I I'm I'm thoroughly enjoying all the meltdowns over it, but I.

JAKE: Yeah, I haven't.

LOWRES: Think there's a lot of.

JAKE: No I haven't. Checked there's that meltdowns, yeah?

LOWRES: Oh, you all are there ever?

JAKE: Get over yourself.

LOWRES: On Facebook, even people are complaining about this. I couldn't believe it, but I do think it's a lot of preemptive celebration from a lot of people who think, oh, this is gonna change. Everything just like Oh yeah, when Trump got elected that changed everything for the better, right? No, not quite. It's always a monkey's paw situation.

JAKE: Fire someone.

HANS: Well, that's the thing when when each side attacks each other, it's like you guys don't realize that both of you are just two ******* within different sites. Like you both fall for the same schemes and the same things and you both get ****** by your own side. You're still supporting them there, so whenever there's like insults thrown at each other about which one is the intelligent side or whatever? It's like neither. Like you hold.

JAKE: Yeah, I'd imagine they're doing on Twitter like most of the world doesn't care. You know, like people go to Twitter for memes mostly, and breaking news not like 50,000 thousand tweet threads about wrong speak or whatever the **** you know.

LOWRES: I'm intrigued is what I'll say.

JAKE: I am I'm saying.

LOWRES: I'm curious to see how. It goes who like?

JAKE: I mean, I don't like him at all, but I think it's really interesting. Like ******, things need shaking up now and then. You know for better. Or worse, yeah, for him to.

LOWRES: Drop word at $43 billion on Twitter. That's that's a. That's a big play. That's a massive play. I'm curious, I'm curious to see what the report or what the future looks like.


LOWRES: Because of that. 'cause every every new source, every television network seems to shape their model of whatever they perceive to be reality based off of Twitter, you can't use HBO Max or something like that without them thinking. Twitter is how we perceive whatever is actually going on right now. So if he has some sort of slaying that I'm all for that. But I don't have any. I'm cautiously optimistic as well is how I would do.

JAKE: Private I I'll be honest I I don't see what's he gonna do like the guy like he get he every new toy he gets he gets bored of it very quickly. You know? Yeah, within within a year he'll sell it or he'll just be like, yeah, I've got that I I'll be honest, I could become a.

LOWRES: That's a good point.

JAKE: You know, I may be completely wrong, who cares, but I I, I, I agree. I think you know, maybe he'll make some some bad. Stuff you know there is actually Twitter is the best platform for censorship, though like Instagram, it's just finished. You know what I mean? The censorship is so bad, but Twitter's like pretty. Open and I hope that he just makes it more open and and I hope it. Doesn't **** everything up.

LOWRES: What do you think landed you on the shift list for for Instagram? 'cause I saw that you did post that video where you can't even like tag the proper Popular Front.

JAKE: Account well, we also I'm a glad that there's like some computer share. I don't know you went into the API. And they actually proved that we're shadowban because there's like a string of code which I forget the exact name. But it basically says don't recommend. So if you try to type our thing in, there's a bit of code that says don't allow this. Channel to pop up. So we kind of proved that we shadow band and I actually spoke to a guy that works at Facebook or meter now and he was like I can't really comment on this. But you're right, I was like, OK, I thought so. Basically I think you know we're showing war. We're showing violence, it's very unfiltered and we kind of go at everybody. We're not. Like pro NATO, we're not pro. Russia we're not pro, you know, fascists we're not pro like hard left whatever. We're just like this is happening. Blah blah blah. And I I think it's very hard. I don't think we're special enough for them to give a ***. It's just it's harder to sell advertising on that kind of content. So they someone probably just went *** them. Click, you know what I mean? I don't think. We're particularly targeted. I just think they don't like us.

HANS: Even want to have you know, actual journalism in an instant.

JAKE: Right, yeah, exactly yeah. I mean honestly, it's it's it's true man. It's like not to blow our own horn, but we've pretty been straight down the line with what we put out. You know, very rarely you know certain words like we'll say, like Turkish regime instead of Turkish government, because by all accounts is a regime. You know, and like things like that, but we've not really done anything. That's that's crazy by it. See the way, in my opinion, we just said we bias to like having a ******* soul. You know what I mean? And we don't really get involved in too much. The political stuff and. Yeah, it's like. OK, you can't really sell much on that like some girl getting our ***** out, you know fair play two or more power to her. But we should have the same ability to to spread our information as she has to spread our US on Instagram. You know what I'm? Saying so, that should be your new your new.

UNKNOWN: Seems like that.

LOWRES: Slogan for Popular Front you should just make that your website header. I think that's very casual. You were you were over in Ukraine when the ship went down, you released a video recently on YouTube detailing what you were up to right before that happened. So what I mean, how? Did that change your plans once you were there? And what was that?

JAKE: Like for you well we left like 5 days. Well now we actually left about 3 days. Before the invasion. 'cause I'll be honest, it was just like it didn't feel like it was gonna happen, I thought. Maybe it would. I wasn't convinced and I had things to do back home. My my guy I was filming with. He had things to do and it was like it didn't feel that it was gonna happen enough to them. Be like, yeah, let's. Stay and then you know I get home. Start editing this piece which was going to be like. You know Ukraine militias prepare for war just in case. And then I get a phone caller and they're like. Yeah, he's invaded and I was like, oh, ****. So you know it's like our whole ******* film is outdated now. But yeah, like you said, I've just put bits out which which looking back now. I think if we did put it straight out, it would have made no sense. But after two months of war I think looking back and hearing the people say what they think might happen is quite eerie. You know 'cause everything they said would happen is happening and a lot of them. People are now on the frontline fighting, so I think that's interesting and and I just got back two weeks ago as well. 'cause obviously I went with Andrew from you know Channel 5 or best no breaks guy. And that was like obviously the was on now. That was ******* weird. We were only in Lviv, which is you. Know a relatively safer area. And I was telling them I was like I don't want to take you guys to frontline you've never been before like you know would be a bit negligent of me to do that and they were like yeah no problem. We wanna do a human story. I thought alright, Levy will be pretty safe day. Three, and there's a ******* air raid. Tired in the night and I was like it's fine. It's probably just a jet over overhead and then like and he's like yo did you see the news like they *******? Bombed somewhere in Lviv. I was like oh **** so you know it was a bit like we didn't hear it like but it was. You know it's quite a big place, but it was like, yeah, like man, it's everywhere you know like it. Just every part of country is getting hit. It's really sad, but yeah, it's a ******* mess, yeah?

LOWRES: And well, on a on a bright now you. You passed 100,000 subscribers over. On YouTube. You got yourself a plaque and I. Saw that you. Immediately just defiled it.

JAKE: Yeah well yeah. Well, I just like, you know. You know YouTube doesn't give us the respect to allow us to monetize our videos, and they've put several of our videos. Some of our biggest docs we made, for example the Armenia one. They've put them behind these weird like censor blockades and it literally says this footage. This video might be deemed in, uh, it might be deemed offensive. And it's like what the **** is offensive about war reporting, you know? So I was like, you know, we don't make no money but they sent me a ******* plaque. I'm surely making them money by people coming to our channel. I was like, **** it, I'll disrespect the plaques, bit childish, but I am a bit chilled.

UNKNOWN: Have you ever thought about?

LOWRES: Getting into like just another topic for YouTube. Like actually we're talking about creepypastas and ****. I've been thinking about doing that lately. It's just alright. Well, maybe maybe actually a sort of second channel 'cause I do all this voice work on the side. Anyway, that eats up all my ******* time. Yeah, what if I just whatever you started? Like hiring writers and did like true crime ****, now you know.


LOWRES: Seven years to like.

JAKE: I have been thinking about, yeah.

HANS: You are going to costume is going to be like Mr. Low risk.

UNKNOWN: Yeah I got a top.

HANS: Hat and a mask and yeah. Phantom of the opera man.

LOWRES: I'll dress like Jack the Ripper for my shows. It would be nice.

JAKE: It's like crazy, obvious decode.

LOWRES: I want to yeah.

JAKE: On The Voice.

UNKNOWN: Yeah yeah, yeah.

JAKE: Yeah, no. I've been thinking about it man. But I like what I want to do, like the video essays. Yeah, I really enjoy a lot of the YouTube video essays like there's that guy, you know, Fred Knudsen. He does down the rabbit hole that's ******* amazing. And there's this one called UM. **** atrocity guide. She is amazing and basically they just go into like weird topics. You know when you get down a Wikipedia rabbit hole it's like that but with really good research and I've been thinking about doing stuff like that like it would just suit so well to that concept you know. But you know when it's like starting off doing something different. You know once you've already been known for one thing. It's a bit hard to like, you know, you lose your confidence a bit to be like. Oh ***, people will be. Like what the? *** is he doing? You know what I mean, yeah.

LOWRES: Right, yeah?

JAKE: I don't know, maybe.

LOWRES: I don't know.

JAKE: You make a lot of money on it.

LOWRES: I kind of want. Yeah, that's the. Most lucrative, it seems like. Anyway YouTube genre 'cause every single I like. I've followed like 20 of these accounts now and they all have about 1,000,000 views per video and it's just like it's. It seems very worthwhile if it works out. I also.

JAKE: I think if you get like a unique angle, you'll find like yeah.

LOWRES: There's there's too. Many of them that just seem like clones of one another and they start like blending together and the voices just all sound. Even if they you know one guy has an Australian accent, the other guy has a British accent. The other guy has a southern accent. It all just sounds the same in my head for whatever. Using now. They just jump between all these videos. Are are there any good like? Ted Kaczynski analysis videos on YouTube or along the lines of what we're talking. About right now.

JAKE: There used to be, but I know loads of them got pulled down when You Tube went through. It's like hyper censorship phase which it seems to be out of a little bit now. It's still quite bad. But it's not as bad as it was like in the height of the culture wars or that ********. Yeah, but yeah, that was one I watched a long time ago. They got pulled down. There's a lot that the problem is there's a lot of like overly political ones. I feel like you know guys that are trying to sweat it this way that way, and I think honestly like a lot of Ted Kaczynski's motivation. It was political, but a lot of it was ego maniac. You know, that's why his targets were all people that have like kind of wronged him in a way. Or at least he perceived that you know it. Kind of ****** him. Off and I you know. Ultimately he was so good at doing what he did. If he really wanted to take down the, you know the technical. Logical, you know. Whatever he would have chose better targets and really it was like oh this guy ****** me off because of this so I'll hit him. It was very ego manic and a lot of the writing is very. I am right and everyone else is wrong, you know. And it's kind of like, yeah, he's made a lot of good points, but he's also made a lot of very self-centered. He's so obsessed that he's right that he's kind of clouded his own judgment. You know what I mean, so I think it's quite human in that sense. He's quite a faulty man.

LOWRES: Well, I mean he lived in the woods and killed people, so yeah, I'd say he's pretty faulty. I don't. Know hey, you you but. You know this may be a controversial question. Do you think? Do you think like he's do you think he was kind of right? Like, do you think his course of action was correct? 'cause he did get a nice. Movie starring Sharlto Copley made in the end?

JAKE: Maybe that was the ultimate goal.

LOWRES: Maybe so I don't know. I mean look. He did he. Did want? What do you get published in? What do you have his manifesto with? Wall Street Journal or something like that?

JAKE: New York journal yeah.

LOWRES: New York Times. He's a man who enjoys attention so.

JAKE: He enjoys attention, but I'll be honest, I you know, I was probably a little bit more. I was younger and edgier when I read the manifesto for the first time and I was like this guy is a genius and then I was, uh, you know I was like ******* 18 or some ****. And then I was older. I was like I read it was about like 2526 again and I was still I. Was like he's not a genius, but I was like he was *******. Write about a lot of stuff. That's the problem, like you don't. So what to do with very shrill people? I got called a Ted Kaczynski fanboy for ages, 'cause I was like he's kind of right about certain things, you know, and for the very shrill people, they think that immediately means, Oh yes, I love blood and carnage, and I think it's great that he blew someone hand off and whatever, no, I think that was ridiculous, but it's like you can't deny that he was right about stuff. It's it's. She's kind of objectively. True, you know, like the the dawn of hyper technology has destroyed people. Attention spans it's created. Some of the most bizarre. Uhm, arguments that we've ever seen, and political trends are like tearing people apart. And it's all facilitated by by the Internet, but also by like fast technology, you know, and I I really do think that a lot of people have have swayed so far from nature that they don't even realize it. And I say it is to anybody. No matter what you do, 90% of people. Well, if they're in a forest, right? That's it? Feel like, oh, that's good. I feel good. Or if if they're on the beach, oh, I feel good like there's something inherently in in everyone. We came from the earth, you know, like we're only in a very small amount of time where we live in these ******* boxes and argue with people that we would never dare say anything to in real life. It's a very small amount of time, but hundreds of thousands of years. We lived shooting and abortion like hunting animals. And and that's where we get all our instincts from right? So I think it's like it's quite. It's quite human to wanna be in nature, and I think he's kind. Of right? That it's kind of anti evolutionary to be dis hooked on technology. Not to say that I you know I. Don't want I'm not. Like a ******* anarcho Some like green anarchists to the point where you know what you wanna have nothing and let people die. If they have like ******* diabetes or something. Obviously you need some technologies, but I don't know. I I just think there is an argument to say that we need less, you know less, or at least we need to be more aware of the way we. Use it as much you know, alright?

LOWRES: This is going to be maybe a stupid question. As far as like Internet people go, but like what? What is this premise of like? Ecofascism 'cause I? See that come up quite a lot when it comes. To check this in. City and I don't. I don't know what the **** that is.

JAKE: Yeah, that that's a real misnomer. Well not misnomer, but like the the again this would have been called this an app for defending him. He he wasn't an ecofascist, actually quite the opposite, not one, not the opposite. I would say he wasn't a leftist or anything like you know. The the manifesto starts with a. Kind of quite accurate attack on kind of bourgeois leftist. Ideologies, but you know he wasn't in ecofascist, he was just very angry and very. Militant in his beliefs, and I mean the guy was openly pro black liberation movements. You know he was openly pro certain and. Anarchist ecological groups. You know, he certainly wasn't pro fascism. In fact, in one of his letters he said all the Nazis that support him, a ******* kooks. He was like they're, you know they're freaks or things I don't he's he would say like I don't even address them they're just. Weirdos, so he wasn't an eco fascist. I mean, you know what? It's like these days. Everything that is slightly not 100% blue. Check neoliberalist, fascism, you know or at. Least it was for a while that ********.

HANS: Like crypto crypto fascist, there's another one that's great.

JAKE: Yeah, yeah, I could sort of clashes, yes.

HANS: Once I say. What does that mean? I this is your fascist and you have your own Bitcoin or something.

JAKE: Royal like. You're a bit coin prices. But but I think. I sorry.

HANS: So I think it's it's, it's still. Very surprising to me that we are so advanced in so many things and still people find it hard to understand how someone that can do something as ******** as bombing random people could be right about some things like not not just 100% wrong just because. He did something.

LOWRES: So you could say.

HANS: It means that everything.

LOWRES: He was right about every go ahead.

HANS: Ever said?

LOWRES: Has I know that's what you really want?

HANS: Because it's again we go back to what we always support, which is the the flawed protagonist right where? Where it's like, yeah, we're going to root for you, but it makes you more interesting if you have quirks or not. Just the same group thing that everyone has or seems to have. And this is one of those examples where yeah he was ********. He did things that he wasn't supposed to. And he's paying for it still, but that doesn't mean that some of these ideas, or some of the things that he came up with were not right and you seeing them happening now.

JAKE: Right, it's it's like that thing. Now we're like I don't know, say a band. And has like a controversial opinion or or even like a ******* terrible opinion. You know, for example, like Varg, that guy who you know from Burzum, the black metal band and people like Burzum sucks. It's like well buzzing is sick like buzzing like.

LOWRES: Burzum rules, yeah, first I just want.

JAKE: I listen to opposing engine.

LOWRES: You yeah. I just watched again. Lords of chaos. Last night it's just the bio.

JAKE: So good, so good.

LOWRES: And they just, yeah, I think they did it on purpose. They catch like a chubby face. Jewish guy as Varg, really. Nothing like Varg, but he's he's very good in that role too.

JAKE: It's so good.

LOWRES: I at the Culkin kid as good as Euronymous that that movie is a lot of fun. I did a double feature of that in the. Northman I don't know if you.

JAKE: Yeah yeah, I'm gonna watch that. I didn't want to watch this now 'cause? I want to. Watch it like, I'm really weird, I I would. I mean, I'm really. It looks really weird. I wanna see it. But you know what I mean, it's like. OK, Yeah Varg is a ******* degenerate like he's a lunatic whatever. But it doesn't mean that his music is ****.

LOWRES: Right no yeah.

JAKE: I mean, like Michael Jackson was a **** but his music was ******* brilliant like.

LOWRES: Yeah yeah, yeah.

JAKE: I don't get why people have to pretend they then don't like. It's like. Look, you're not. Saying you love that person, you know like it gives a. **** man.

LOWRES: Yeah, this is like a new phenomenon that I noticed I think first with Orson Scott Card who wrote what Ender's Game that kid science fiction series?

HANS: We gotta be able to separate.

LOWRES: When they started making that into a feature film, I remember on Twitter at the time Stephen King's son. As a matter of fact, Joe Hill said. Oh, you know? Listen, the anti-gay stuff. That's one. Thing I just. Don't think he's a good writer. They take this very disingenuous angle with it. Like, no, actually, he's just. Not good and I I find that particularly loathsome when when people take that approach.

JAKE: Oh, cowardice as well.

LOWRES: Yes, yeah.

JAKE: As like you know, even you're basically saying. I'm not even willing to argue the point of why this guy is a ********. You're just total coward. It's like it's not good. Forget it. It's like why 'cause you don't agree with him. You know like it's *******.

HANS: Said JK Rowling thing right? It's like she's created this universe that so many people, that's

JAKE: Oh God.

HANS: Support that's I'd love. It's like their entire life. And now all of a sudden he's like no, we have to change and take that from her. And so she created it. She wrote everything. There's nothing you can do to separate those two.

LOWRES: What's the thing that would they make a fake Quidditch League or something where people get like role play, playing quidditch, and then they were like, well, we better change the name now because JK is a turf.

JAKE: Only say it's like Skype slide.

LOWRES: Oh my God, you're running around with brooms between.

JAKE: Through yeah yeah.

HANS: Yeah yeah, yeah.

JAKE: Do you know what though like that?

UNKNOWN: Yeah, it's fast.

JAKE: That being said, that like I I I have no problem with transfer. I don't give a ****. I think leave people. Alone, but like. Her and her whole like clique have really created a weird thing where like people are like old Brits are so ******* anti. The translator is like bro, no one gives a **** like it's this weird group of like old ******* losers on the Internet. You know what I mean? Like it's so annoying, but it's like your right hands. You can't then be like. Well, we like what she made. Let's get it off of Ali. It came from her ******* brain. It will always be hers. You know, like it's yeah, it's. ******* stupid one.

HANS: Yeah, they want to make Harry Potter without her. I didn't care where you gonna.

JAKE: Right, like Harry Potter isn't.

UNKNOWN: Even real. Like it's fine.

HANS: You know, yeah. Write something reads another. Book yeah no, that that's that.

LOWRES: They she she got disinvited from the reunion they did on HBO Max or something as well. They had the entire cast and. Crew of those first. It's it's all so tiresome, but it's fine.

JAKE: It is.


LOWRES: You know that that's why it's so refreshing when a movie like TDC comes around. Yes you know TDC. That reminded me a whole lot of this other movie this other biopic I saw. I don't know if. You heard about. This this father Stu starring Mark Wahlberg. This is a great.

HANS: Why do you? Why do you have that?

LOWRES: Well, they were just.

JAKE: Yeah, why you gotta post it.

UNKNOWN: Giving these out at the.

LOWRES: Theater last night. I don't know. I thought I. Would take one home father Stu. It's a well, actually there's not.


LOWRES: A whole lot in comedy he did, starring Ted the. Talking Teddy bear though Mark right?

HANS: Oh yeah, wing Twitter I. I just realized today the right wing Twitter loves that movie have.

LOWRES: Yes they do.

HANS: Too, yeah, I'm not sure why. I mean I. Haven't seen it, but from what? You said I have no intention. Of watching it.

UNKNOWN: We have

JAKE: Blue Bug beat up like a lot of black kids when he was like ******* 50 and that's probably. Why that's right?

LOWRES: Black shoes Asian kids sporting goods yeah yeah he took out a Vietnamese man. I write hush. You love you love quoting that right. What do you say?

HANS: Phuc Vietnamese fuc.

JAKE: Yeah, what is that?

LOWRES: He said you beat.

UNKNOWN: Or ship is it?

LOWRES: On me **** yeah yeah.

HANS: Ship or something like that similar, yeah?

JAKE: Anyway, the funniest thing was when he was. Like if I had been on that plane about 911 like things. Were going out there for like. But if, uh, Q on about.

LOWRES: They should make that a movie that. Would be great.

JAKE: That would be oh man, Mark Wahlberg, like saving the alternate universe 9/11 where Mark Wahlberg just happens to be on the plane would be so good.

UNKNOWN: Oh ****.

LOWRES: That would be terrific have. You seen any other new films this year, Jake?

JAKE: Honestly, Nah man, I keep I just watched so much old stuff and I have this real problem. I just watched the same **** all over again. You know, like I watched prisoners and you told me to watch it. I watched it like last year and then I watched it again two nights ago. It's like why am I watching prisoners he I didn't really like it that much, but I just was like, yeah, you know, I caught.

UNKNOWN: Would you?

JAKE: You know it's something eerie about it. Watch I I really need to find like new films, but I did think Ted pay like I agree that it was actually refreshing like it wasn't. I was just waiting for it to get preachy. I was waiting for it to be like you know, annoyingly, like morale. And it was just like no, this is what happened and I was like, OK, that's cool. You know? I thought the only thing I didn't. I thought the music was ******* atrocious like the.

LOWRES: Yeah, you were complaining.

JAKE: Way they used.

LOWRES: About this I, I mean I haven't watched it in about a week and 1/2, but the music didn't really leave an impression. I mean what? What bothered you about the soundtrack or the score?

JAKE: I think because it looked so good like and it had these like scenes where the tension was really ready to just ****. Can go and then they would bring in this song where you're like yeah like it just for me just destroyed the you know. Like they had all. This weird kind of neon light vibe when he's in the motel and it's like you need some ******* electronic like drive type music for that. You know whether it's cliche or not, you need that **** and they brought in some like piano riff and I was like. Yeah, like I don't know. Maybe I'm a cliche I don't know but for me I just I really hated the way they put the music in. But other than that, I really liked it and I thought the scene with like their. ******* motorbikes was really cool. Like, yeah, you know I liked it, yeah.

LOWRES: What did you think of the visual style of this movie? I really thought that it was impressive how the director could jump between a couple of different visual appearances depending on where the location. Set like specifically, you know you do have that neon motel sequence, but then also he's like in the bathroom having his lunch and it's a very like bleached, washed out kind of look and then obviously everything that's out in the wilderness. It's just very like big and bold and colorful. I that was probably my favorite aspect of a movie. Although you know there's one scene at the motel that really bothers me. It's very like filmschool 101, where they literally just stole a shot from the shining with Scatman Crothers when he's watching TV in Miami, FL. And it's like a slow zoom and you have both of shadows. Feeding the shot and it's two lamps on the other end just completely rip that shot from and it was like not even an obscure shot. It's just like. The most obvious shot you could probably take from. The shining, so I I had a little great with that, but everything. Else I thought it was.

JAKE: Was terrific. I thought it looked really nice manners though, and it was really few films I've seen recently that wasn't like new film that's not overgraded to FCK like so many films these days. I watch and it's like just been ran through Instagram. You know what? I mean, it looks like.

LOWRES: Yeah, yeah.

JAKE: That I really like the coloring on it like I really I've been. I've been watching a few things about coloring. I think maybe it's just on my mind. Like 'cause I've been really interested in. They changed the mood of a ******* thing you know with the color, but I really like that and I I loved like I don't know the the scene in his cabins. I thought that was it kind of felt claustrophobic, but he was very much OK. You know what I mean? Like he was, he was clearly he's a good actor. You can tell he's at home, but in the *******, in the cabin it's like, **** that like. You know what I mean? Like I'd want. At least one a big cabin, you know? Yeah, I don't know. I like too many, I don't know. Maybe that's how it showed just how it was but but I, I thought it was really cool. Like and I. Really like the. There's a lot of like weird shots where it's almost handheld. You know when he's like lying down and he's going to shoot himself, and it's like very ******* close. I I love all that kind of stuff you. Know not too still I. Feel like there's too much tripod. Going on these days.

LOWRES: Oh yeah, yeah, no it.


LOWRES: It it did feel like they they jump between art. We're going to use a red camera and then we're actually going to use some like go pros or something. It felt very dirty in some parts which I liked. Was refreshing and and. Then obviously bouncing that between like, alright? Well this is 1 where we have to get very good cinematography. So let's focus on that first. It was a good good balance between those two.

HANS: That's that's a really good point, though how comfortable he felt because, yeah, like you said, the way that it was shot, a lot of the times when he was in his little cabin. You feel claustrophobic because that's not how you live, right? Then the the fact that he's so comfortable and this is you know, one where I I like being helps with that with that I guess crazy aspect of this character.

JAKE: He's voided.

HANS: They're kind of trying to portray without you know, riding crazy on his forehead or or, you know something. It's very it's very subtle but, but but you see it. By you know how comfortable he.

JAKE: Is there and there's a bit where? Yeah, like I noticed it where like they I kicked. Why are they showing these shots where he's cooking and **** so often, but then I realized there's a shot where like he grabbed something and like basically it's they show that everything he needs in his whole life is to hand. You know what I mean and he grabs like a pot turns around, grabs that like he knows where everything is. He doesn't have anything to excess. That's that's actually you know what Kaczynski was about. People are like, uh. Oh, why did he? He was an anti tech. He had a radio and it's like no. He was a you know it was it wasn't like he wasn't saying to live. You know, like with nothing, but he's like just have what you you know the the basic things people have had pots and pans for *******. You know thousands of years, so yeah, I liked that. It kind of I felt watching this. I was like whoever made this. Has really done their research, you know, as someone who has.

LOWRES: And I really enjoyed another aspect of the movie is just how much?

HANS: They liked it.

LOWRES: He let the the scenery and everything breathe. Yeah, this was shot in an unconventional manner. I don't know if I told you this over over text, but what they did for this was essentially Sharlto. Copley would just go meet up with the director and his family or whatever for maybe like 2 weeks at a time. Once a season and then they would go shoot part of the movie then, which is why this took so long to do and I guess they ran out of money shot. There was a was a producer on the film as. Well and it took up to a year to shoot this thing. I believe they shot at the the actual cabin, right?

JAKE: Well, the cabins gone but they they put the the cabins. In like an FBI museum or some ****. Now, yeah, it's it's.

LOWRES: All right?

JAKE: It's in, I think it's in the exact place. Yeah, and also. The cabin is ******* exact. You know what I mean? Like it's really good like there's even images from inside the cabin and when you look at inside it's it's pretty much the same. You know with everything up in the ******* roof. And ****, yeah.

LOWRES: Now what who deserves the Ted Kaczynski TDC treatment. Next of all these undesirable real life characters who who do you? Who do you think? Is like a good I I won't. Say icon, but. Just like a character in in in those terms, that could really stand to benefit from one of these types of bio pics.

HANS: Uh, Monday already? Right with us at.

LOWRES: Well, yeah, with Zac Efron.

JAKE: All it's so bad. It's so ******* bad. He's just like Chad Zac. Efron, it doesn't even feel like Ted Bundy.

LOWRES: My favorite thing about that movie is that they like try to gaslight the audience, and with well, maybe you don't actually know this. So maybe maybe he's telling the truth, isn't he charismatic? Isn't he a handsome, likable guy? Which is, I guess, what Ted Ted Bundy. Did for real, so it it kind. Of it fits, but like.

HANS: Everyone, yeah, yes you can't. You can't do that. 40 years.

LOWRES: After the fact.


LOWRES: When he's, you know. One of the most prolific serial killers but.

JAKE: Yeah, I think the you know the LA Bank heist. I've said this to you before. Actually, I would love to see like there's been a film about it, but it's you know, it's like propaganda type ****. I would love to see a film from the point of view of the two LA Bank heist robbers and it was just this insane *******. Heist where these two guys they were kind of like the last American true American bandits, you know, like. They were completely. They were completely like a political. They didn't give a ******* **** about anything. They just went around stealing ****, robbing things big, bigger and bigger and they go on this mad bank. Heist and they all took like ******* like LSD like X they took like mad drugs like ******* snorting cocaine before it. They made their own body armor. And then they like put on like the coolest jackets you've ever seen like multi colored Reebok jackets. They're gonna rob a ******* bank and then the police set up and they've just got like, you know, like 50 ******* crates of ammunition. And just like.

UNKNOWN: Get Google.

JAKE: Yeah, like just walk out like firing as if not. Things happening and it's an amazing scene. Yeah, these guys exactly exactly these guys. Yeah yeah and it's amazing. An amazing scene but it's distort the backdrop behind. It is ******* just fascinating, and if you may look a really stylized film about how they got to that point and then ended the film. I mean, the whole film could be the building up to it. Taking the ******* cocaine and all the LSD. And making this year. But then you know, it's it. I don't know. It's just a really interesting. Story, though I don't know some. Like oh God, why that's right?

LOWRES: Wow, I saw him out there could. You just go back. To that mug shot. Real quick, that kinda looks like Aegaeon Monkey Jones, don't you think?

UNKNOWN: It doesn't lag.

JAKE: Wow, But yeah, I think that would be cool as **** man and like it's like whatever like they're bad guys whatever I mean, but personally I don't give a FCK to someone robbed the bank. Who cares that we get robbed by them every ******* day. But the the the ******* like just the the builder? I read all about it. One time and I was like man. One day I'm gonna do a script and make a film about this, but I hope somebody does.

LOWRES: Yeah, it's not I, you know, I've been recommended. I think a couple of video essays on that before, and I haven't checked it out. Everything I know about it. Is from talking to you so I.

JAKE: You have to.

LOWRES: Do some research.

JAKE: You'd be really interested in it, man. I'm not doing it justice. It's hard to explain how weird it was like they were just. I think there were just two pals as well that were like I don't know, they're just like they were like. Of course we're criminals. You know, like there wasn't anything that particularly bad happened.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, yeah.

JAKE: They were like, of course, we're just going to steal. We're not going. To do normal. Shirt you know, which I don't know. Part of me. Devise in a way.

LOWRES: I think we're due for like a good bank robbery film. I think good time had had that right at the start. I think place beyond the Pines had that at the start, but they all veer off and try to do something different after that.

UNKNOWN: Going here.

LOWRES: 'cause you can't, I guess sustain an entire movie with that anymore. That's a very like 1970s thing. Yeah, that that would be good, huh? It's off the. Top of your head. Who do you think would be like? Good for another? TDC style film

HANS: I like on the red green show just because I want to see furniture made out of skin.

LOWRES: Every time they do. Ed Geen it's a big ***** ** **** direct to DVD movie. It's like who do they cast is Ed Geen? Like Rob Schneider or somebody you know.

JAKE: Explain and mine wasn't wasn't Ed Gein in Mindhunter.

LOWRES: Get glasses and being.

HANS: No, no, I can't died. Oh yeah. So yeah, no, it is the one that they based cycle off.

JAKE: Oh yeah, yeah.

HANS: Yeah, no, he's the furniture made out of skin and.

LOWRES: And right, well, he's just a ******** pedophile in real life, right? Was it wasn't that? I mean that that's most of these.

UNKNOWN: It, but that's.

LOWRES: Guys though yeah.

HANS: That's the thing you have to think, OK? So who would? Be an interesting one. I guess uh Dennis Rader has been done today. That's that's someone that would be. Clever enough where it would be interesting to hear their reasoning, and it's not just a dumb killer. I don't know something something was crazy too, right?

JAKE: There's a reason.

LOWRES: Yeah, he's out. He's out and about. I'm pretty sure he's like. My neighbor or something.

HANS: Oh is he got him on the show?

LOWRES: David Berger. He's yeah, yeah. Yeah, we should get him on the. Show that would be great. I'd love to invite him over to my apartment. That would be that would be a fun time. Just do our first in person interview with this son of Sam.

JAKE: Oh, what is he? Is he out? Yeah, he's out. Fak off what?

LOWRES: Yeah he he got. Out I think like 10-15 years ago or. Something oh the FCK.

JAKE: What's he doing now? Is you YouTube.

LOWRES: Uh, I think he only. David Hinckley just got out recently too and he he's actually you too he.

JAKE: Yeah, tried to shoot Reagan, right?

LOWRES: Yeah, tried.

UNKNOWN: He did from Gregory.

LOWRES: To shoot Ray and now he's performing at some hotel and like a cafe somewhere.

JAKE: That's so funny.

LOWRES: He's labeling it his redemption tour. You know? Senate Sam, I believe it's just a a pastor now. I think he found God or something and he's just preaching. He got out 'cause he was a. Model prisoner. And he's living.

JAKE: I read a.

LOWRES: Living his best life.

JAKE: Good for him. I I read that that true crime book about the son of Sam. They actually did a kind of Netflix series. Based on it. Uhm, what's it called something evil? It's like undefeated, evil or some ****. Anyway, it it's the biggest. I read it. It's like this ******* thick and you know when you're like I just have to finish it now. And basically, this report ties the son of Sam case to like 50 different cults that basically don't even exist in America like ties it all back to you gotta read it. Like, well, I don't read it, but just for the fun of it, it's so funny. Like you know, in South Park when they're like a gun. I've got a gun, handlebars, aliens. You know, I mean, it's like that. He's just connecting the craziest ******* ****. And it literally was a bestseller. For like 3. Years and it's so bad man. It's so ******* bad, but basically the reason I bring up is because it's quite funny because. The guy I forget his name the the son of Sam Guy. Like he was just feeding him ******** for years so he'd come in and be like I know there's something else and he'd be like **** it I've got. Nothing else to do. And he's like how did you know? Like I did years later, he was like yeah no, I just ******* ******** him the whole time. Yeah, it's pretty sad.

LOWRES: Did you ever get around to checking out memories of murder? I recommended that to you a while back. That was the.

JAKE: Which one is the?

LOWRES: Bong, Joon Ho, directed that there was a South Korean serial killer film. It's kind of like Zodiac, but it came out back in 2000 or 2001. I.

JAKE: Want to say? I think if I remember I couldn't. Find a ******* copy of it like we. We have this weird thing in Britain where you'll find a film on Amazon. Prime and it's just not there. It's like you can put it to your watchlist, but there's nothing you can't put it play it. You can't buy it, there's nothing there. I'm pretty sure I found it on there, it's. It's from the 90s or some chip, right? It might be.

LOWRES: Late 90s or early aughts, right on the cut.

JAKE: OK, yeah, I think I know what.

LOWRES: You mean, yeah, that's great. I we rewatched Zodiac for a show not recently, but like in the past year or so I I thought it didn't really hold up as well as I thought. Uh, do you have any thoughts on?

JAKE: Zodiac yeah, I had a similar feel. I watched it again a year last year and I was like I love this. I love this film and I was kind of like by the. End of it I. Was like it's a bit slow. You know what I mean?

LOWRES: Uh, because that was probably my and it might still be my favorite from David Fincher, and I do think it's one of the better serial killer films. And even though it's not really about Zodiac in general, but on this go around, I just I don't know. I I found more problems with it than I had ever probably seen. Watching that that movie, but. Or and something like memories of murder I think does the same exact thing, but to a stronger effect and capacity, so I don't know if you ever get around to it, I. I would definitely recommend that film check.

JAKE: Definitely, I'll try and get. I'll try and find a couple tonight. Actually, I need to watch something. Yeah, I remember that Robert Downey junior carrots are being ******* insufferable the second time around. When I watched. It, he's just like it's like we get it. He's a ******* alcoholic. Do you know?

UNKNOWN: What I mean?

JAKE: Like, yeah, so many scenes like I'm on a boat now. I'm in the. I'm in here. I mean there's.

LOWRES: Little **** and he's doing his typical Robert Downey junior.

JAKE: I see Red rock.

UNKNOWN: Right, which is playing?

LOWRES: He's just so yeah, which at the time was like great 'cause like oh he just got out of prison for for heroin and haven't done illegally or whatever he was doing.

JAKE: Robert Downey junior.

LOWRES: You know he wasn't in movies and now he's ******* everywhere. It's just tiresome so.

JAKE: Yeah, I read the book 'cause well after watching it. Uhm, and there's two books actually where boy for them by rate by Robert Ray Smith. And they're way more interesting. Obviously I know the books are, but there's like I was like there's quite a lot they could have put in this. Film, which would have been better?

LOWRES: You know what I mean? Yeah, my favorite thing from the books is that they when they went and brought him into custody when they showed up at his house, apparently. He was just naked and covered in squirrels.

UNKNOWN: Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

LOWRES: Yeah, it's.

JAKE: That was in. The yeah that weird like trailer, right?

LOWRES: Yeah yeah, I I. Yeah yeah yeah I I believe so it it was another thing to where his mother was like.

UNKNOWN: Yeah yeah, yeah.

LOWRES: Alright alright Arthur, I'm going on vacation I'll be back in a week and then she just sailed. The world. To not be around her son.

JAKE: The worst son.

LOWRES: Yeah, but it it comes out. In this is something I've said many times. Whenever we talk about serial killers on this. Show something that they don't seem to get in these movies, or just in general. Is that every single one of these serial killers or just maniacs, is? As brilliant as they are a ******** person, it's literally 5050 and they just kind of luck out. They go on a hot streak for a little bit and it works out, which is why I like that movie axe because he that guy is clearly not all that bright. He's just a mess, but that that you know that's a good one in terms of. Time, length 'cause it's only like 80 minutes long or something like that compared to Zodiac, which needs 3 hours to convey its point that. Oh, this affects people in different ways.

JAKE: Yeah, I I think as well like back then there was no KTVI. Like yeah, you get. Caught for a crime without CC when KTVI didn't exist. You're a ******* idiot. You could literally if no one sees you and there's no ctor, no forensics, you *******, you could do whatever you wanted. You know what I mean? It's kind of crazy, so I think. A lot of it. It's like, oh they. Were genius it's. Like now they just just. You're in a timer. It's very hard to find people doing stuff. Right people will just like never have a driving license ever. Because who the **** like you know in case they get stopped there's no other way they're gonna get caught now everything is just bringing it back to technology. Everything is harder to do, not just if you're a criminal, but like everything is a little bit harder to do without anyone knowing, you know. And it's just that's how it is now. That's why you know there's some. There's I read an article awhile ago. Actually it's quite good. It's about like why. There's you know. There there is circular active, probably, but why? There's no great serial killer for however many years you know there's not been any like huge, huge case where there have been, but they've just been people they've caught that would do any ages ago. You know what I mean? I, I think recently there was one. Where a guy was shooting homeless people. I think maybe in New York or some ****. But yeah, it's like it's just harder to get away.

HANS: With you know DNA changed the game completely.

JAKE: DNA, yeah exactly.

HANS: Exactly with that, but. Without that I just moved to the next state, right? See you next town even yeah.

JAKE: Yeah, it's crazy.

LOWRES: Do you think that more? People have gotten away with murder than not.

JAKE: Probably I would say right this sorry.

LOWRES: 'cause like again, you know because of this true crime kick that I've been on I've. I've come under the impression that that's probably almost definitely the case that they probably will. Like Link 70% of the amount of murders that are out there. And in the case of something like Zodiac, which we were talking about before, my suspicion is that a lot of those were not even like the same person that they were just linking cases to try and ******* figure it out and say this is done we we caught the OR whatever they were doing and and making a lot of conveniences to just. Solve their own problems.

JAKE: They try and.

LOWRES: As opposed to the actual problem, yeah.

JAKE: That that happened with the Golden State killer where? They thought he was two different killers. There was like the original night Prowler and the Golden State and it turned out to act well. That was the opposite. That turned out to be the same guy. Yeah, you know what I mean. But yeah, it's like it. There was a lot, especially back then as well. Police were under pressure to beat while they're on a person, I guess for that, but they were they were under pressure from like governors and shipped right to just like solve this. ******* solve it now. That's why there's so many like innocent people on death row and ***, right? Like I think you're right, I think a lot of them they. Were just like, yeah, ***. It like and they've never. They've there's already out is so interesting because I've read a load into it and. There's still there's like three people where I'm like either one wouldn't surprise me. You know what I mean? There's no in my opinion, there's no definitive. It's definitely him. You know, every time they they say we've solved it, they haven't really. You know, it's it's really interesting.

LOWRES: They do love to usher out a new guy every five years or so. Holding value goes and and digs into a tool box in his basement goes oh, my step. Dad was the Zodiac killer. Oh, there's a piece of paper here with the zodiacs. I guess my father was the Zodiac. Let me write a book and get $1,000,000 deal with signing issues there.

JAKE: Yeah yeah yeah. And then and then in in a day someone on Reddit just dismantles them, it's like. Yeah, yeah.

HANS: What do you?

UNKNOWN: I think it's.

LOWRES: Oh, go ahead, sorry.

JAKE: Well, I was going to say that's like Reddit is a fukken cesspit, but the one thing that is really good on Reddit I I follow some of the subreddits where they're like true crime. You know amateur true crime investigators and some of them are ******* amazing. Some of them are really, you know, they FCK up every now and then. We will know when they pinned the Boston bombing on like some innocent. No guy but you know.

LOWRES: Sunil Tripathi, I still remember that.

JAKE: That's it, right he.

LOWRES: Yeah that for that for he killed himself.

JAKE: Indian guy right? Jude himself man ********

LOWRES: Yeah yeah.

JAKE: Obviously Reddit folks stuff like that, but there are now, like I think now, that whole thing is involved or quite a lot of people know about like Geo location and stuff like that. You know we saw that with that. Actually, my opinion quite good. Netflix docs that don't **** with cats and and yeah, so there's like some some subreddits on Reddit I looked through. And they're ******* incredible. They've got like decades of collaborative. Like research, looking into people, and they've got like all these Google and anyone can access it. You know, like certain parts of it, it's really fascinating. They're really on point and you just like mums like wine moms, you know.

UNKNOWN: So that.

LOWRES: That that don't ****. With the cats argument, I remember seeing that snuff film. Like 5 years, 10 years maybe before that document like 2013 or so. And I remember. Watching that and then what does it? New order starts playing? And she's like this is this.

HANS: But with when he's starting from the Asian, yeah.

LOWRES: He's like this. ******* nerd stole that from American Psycho and did that while killing a guy. What a ******* loser.

JAKE: Everything about him was completely unoriginal, like Luke, Luke, Luke Lamar, right, Luke, Jim.

LOWRES: I I think so. He had a very Elliot, Rodger style look very like defined chic. But is he alive? Did they catch him alive?

JAKE: I don't know, man, I think so well knows.

LOWRES: What did they? Get they got EXIF data off of some photo he posted on Myspace or something that led them to his location.

JAKE: They also they geolocated the flat as well, like there was like a corner of an image where you could see, like the balcony, and I think from something else they were like right here in Canada and it's like wait where where in Canada has those kind of apartments and it was like 1 ******* city.

LOWRES: Figure it out, it was. All flowers, yeah.

JAKE: You know what I mean like?

HANS: Oh yeah, yeah. Fair enough I got gas station or something like that like.

JAKE: Right, right? Yeah, really clever. Putting the pieces. Yeah, I thought that was.

HANS: Really cool yeah, he's alive. He's in jail for life, yeah?

UNKNOWN: Like yeah.

JAKE: ******* lunatic you start sending body parts to like. Politicians and ****. He basically did it 'cause he wanted to be famous like the guy was so ******** it failed actor. A failed model was like I know. I just ******* murdered somebody like then. I'll be good.

HANS: Just to Incredibly UN talented. So let me just kill someone.

LOWRES: I I just watched a Hulu documentary. It was pretty good on a guy who essentially did the same thing his, his younger brother was kidnapped as a child by again, just like another gay pedophile instead, yeah. Now hey, I called your parents. Your parents said you gotta live with me and then the kid just thought nothing up because. He was seven years old. And then after like 10 years or something, I guess his replacement came in. So he's like, hey, I got you a little. Brother and then, like the kid, was like clearly nervous and something snapped in the older kids who had been there for 10 years and was like I gotta, I gotta get him out of here and so he grabbed the little boy, took him to the police station. They caught the guy. Yeah, he went to prison and then back at home during this time. His older brother was just kind of like very jealous that his younger brother who got kidnapped was this new. Euro and I was. Like, well, he got all this attack. He got a TV movie of the week on. ******* NBC. I'm getting fed up here. All right? I'm gonna start killing people and so the brother then becomes equally famous for being a serial killer.

UNKNOWN: Are you kidding?

LOWRES: I hate it. Yeah, what is the name of the documentary? Has you want to pull up my letterbox or something? I think it's just called American nightmare. It's a 3 three-part miniseries on Hulu, and it was very good and it goes. First part is the kidnapping. Second part is busting the kidnapper all in the third part. Here is actually, well, he's his brother is a serial killer. There's like a very left. Turn like Wow, that's that's crazy. That's amazing.

JAKE: That's the kind of shape you wrote it. You'd be like this. Is ******* stupid that would.

LOWRES: Make for a terrible movie. That would make if you wrote that as a script, you'd be like what the **** is this?

UNKNOWN: Yeah, yeah.

LOWRES: People were upset with Spike. Lee is red. Hook summer 'cause? It was like, oh these kids go. To a new. Family and in the third act the dude is a pedophile. People hated that. That's that's the same thing. You you introduce a. Serial killer in a kidnapping story come on. But this is what happened this.

UNKNOWN: I know.

LOWRES: This was very good.

HANS: Is this the one?

LOWRES: Yes, that's it. Captive audience a real American horse. They always. They got really unoriginal with the names of. These documents.

JAKE: But you know, I was looking through Netflix yesterday and I was actually angry at how bad. Not angry, but you know when you just sit there pist off? Like what the ***? Sorry about the titles of their documentaries. Like it's just insane. It's like the first guy at the board meeting. They were like this. They're like yeah that *** it like it's so unoriginal man like.

LOWRES: They label it for simpletons, boasted Jimmy Saville. One it was.

HANS: A British Horror Story.

LOWRES: British horror Uno wasn't just the title of validation American.

JAKE: No **** Britain Whole Britain is. A Horror Story like.

LOWRES: Ah, it's bad. It's so did you?

JAKE: Boys, you know how?

LOWRES: Check out the Seville one.

JAKE: Much they left out of that. Yeah, they left out so much like so so much, not even like old conspiracy tale like real **** like he was ****** dead bodies. He had a ******* key to the morgue in the hospital. Like it. It's just there's so much stuff they left out the level of police corruption was like. Stratospheric, like it's insane, like police were like tipping him off. You know what I mean? They were like, oh there's some ******** going on. They think you're a paedo still, you know, like just the maddest ship was happening bro like it, it was a good. Action, but there's so much more to that, you know, so much work ****.

LOWRES: Yeah, I I want to say that the second part of the documentary, especially kind of dropped the ball 'cause they they interviewed. Maybe 1 victim. They didn't even really go all that into detail about what he was up to. Just a lot of hearsay like, oh, you know he was doing. He was volunteering at the hospital, picking out like mentally challenged girls or something or or people who were like trying to. Get over injuries or whatever it was. And they didn't really do a good job of explaining. I mean, they do do enough of a job explaining why he's a terrible person, but they don't like hammering the details or really bring it home.

JAKE: No, definitely you have to there. There's one, the real. The only good testimony was there is that woman where she's like. She says the. Sickest thing and it's I'm glad they left the in 'cause it really reminds you how disgusting these. People are. She's like, oh, I was putting like tampons in every hole to stop him touching me. And it's like a detail like that as grizzly as it is. You have to **** hear that to understand the disgusting level that he's got. I was going to but I agree. Then it was just kind of like anyway, next you know what I mean? It's very formulaic. It's like actually you should have probably laced that in throughout the whole doc like just a constant punch to the throat. Like yo, this guy has been *** a **** disabled girl. He *** a dead body. You know what I mean? Like the craziest shipment but now I also there's a way they present. As well, where it's very. Talk 2 talking heads like this. I don't know man I I just get tired at yeah so now after a while when it's too many talking heads I just start zoning out. I don't know. How else you could do it but but anyway like I said. There's a lot of stuff they didn't talk about, and there's also stuff like he had some pretty weird links like the links to the royal family. Yeah, they kind of went in. Into it, but how you going to talk about paedophilia and then not bring up the fact that, like Prince Andrew is a ****? Yeah, yeah it was like come on man like you know it's the the source of the week. It's kind of booking massive beetle. So yeah, I don't know how many but, but again, I don't expect too much from Netflix and what they. Lease is never. That good either. No, of course not.

LOWRES: And I think that that giant dip in. That they've taken recently that's been reported. Apparently it's much bigger than what they're they're saying. I I saw something that said something along the lines of 600,000 subscribers in EU S7 700,000 subscribers overseas, but like the 200,000 numbers, just wow. Just confirmed or popular I guess I don't know, but that's interesting. I'm curious to see how that's going to shape what they come up with next, 'cause they used to be a great source for true crime when memory not. Memories were making. A murderer came out. They kind of took that serial premise of alright. We're investigating something where you know it's not. Clear cut that this guy is or is not the killer and then applied that to the documentary mold and they haven't really. Done anything worthwhile, since either on a documentary front or a narrative front for my opinion, although I I enjoy split game that was about.

JAKE: They love. It that was alright. Actually yeah, but I think they lost a lot of credibility though, because you know like making a murderer like there's loads of **** that's like just the things they left out are like, huge. You know what I mean. So basically, like making a murderer to actually get the full picture, you have to actually go and like do loads of other research. There's the I'll be honest. I hate to say about like Brendan Dassey when you're like oh there's no way he's guilty like there's a lot of more evidence actually than what they. Put in the. Dock so if.

LOWRES: Oh yeah, I got it. Definitely did. It ******* building him.

JAKE: He's yeah yeah yeah yeah it is.

LOWRES: Adnan from serial.

JAKE: Adnan completely guilty.

LOWRES: Although completely guilty.

JAKE: So yeah, we so get you right like.

LOWRES: HBO did a.

UNKNOWN: It's soon if you told him.

LOWRES: Documentary, Yeah Israel did a documentary a couple years ago where they're like and I think his sister produced it or something.

UNKNOWN: Come on.

LOWRES: It was like our story. You know, This is why I had nons innocent and. If they did, did just if it was.


LOWRES: Adnan a nice guy. Oh, that's persuasive. Alright, I guess he couldn't have killed his girlfriend. Yeah, they didn't really seem to know where to go with that. They don't have anyone else to point the finger at, but I don't know. I'm, you know, do you think that that true crime? In the fiction narrative, has the potential to be as interesting. As when laid out properly in the documentary. 'cause it kind of feels like it's killed the genre, even though we've we've talked about TDC.

UNKNOWN: I think yeah.

LOWRES: Uh, pretty at length. On this show. I agree it was well done. Piece of art. Do you think it has the capability of being able to land that same blow?

JAKE: I, I think definitely I just think. Like true crime is one of the most interesting topics I I know people like. Oh, it's my guilty pleasure. I'm like ******* guilty pleasure. It's ******* brilliant like I love it. It's so interesting I I remember reading midnight in the garden of Good and evil when I was like ******* like 22 like my boss at twice. Actually I was reading some like nerdy true crime book. He's like, oh, you should read this. Alright cool, I remember reading that and I was like you could make this the ******* craziest, most eccentric but real film ever you know. But instead they, they just always go for, like Ernest, over Ernest, like oh guy in the corner. Like you know what I mean? It's like I think not that I'm saying you. Want to make it a ******* circus but. I feel like there's there's so much variables you you could put in or take out whatever to true crime. Where at the very base you would be like, OK, it's true crime, but aesthetically everything else you wouldn't even associate it. Perhaps with that you know with that thing I've been saying for a while, actually I want my. I don't know if I'll do it, but you know, money permitting. But my next project not not not fiction wise, but as I get older I've said I wanna do for true crime. What I did with Popular Front for war documentaries like I want to do a true crime doc and make it like a doc where you're like what the **** I can't believe that's a true crime. Doc, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I've got some ideas about to do it but but my point is I just feel like it's a really. It's been allowed to be the kind of game of like stuffy, easy, crank it. Out documentary makers for too long. And it needs to be back in the hands of people, not just documentary film as well, but I think it needs to be back in the hands of like film makers that are like, yeah, let's try something weird and experiment and different, you know, I think with what your film is, I know it's like a fictional obviously, but I think with what your film is is from what I gather, it's gonna. Obviously it's like funny and ship, but it's gonna be like that. Right? Like it's, it just looks so different. And it's a true crime premise as well, right?

UNKNOWN: Well, not true.

JAKE: So maybe, but you know it's true.

LOWRES: Well, the crime crime element is what's debated.

JAKE: In that union. Right, yeah?

LOWRES: You know there's been a lot of theories that have been put around roughly around 9:00 or 10 guys who have washed up in the same exact way in Massachusetts, and that's something that's been, you know, at the forefront of my mind. For a long time 'cause I I even vaguely, I didn't know, but I had met once through another friend. One of those guys. And and it's just an interesting set of occurrences that have happened here and there. Always the same type of guy always go to these prestigious colleges that are in the area. Same story, everybody leaves a bar without a coat and walks home in the exact opposite direction. Winds up in the wall. It's very suspicious, so yeah, that's something that. Has intrigued me for for quite a while, and integrating that into the story and applying that to a couple of other different things I wanted to play with for a feature and I'm so ready to get this movie. Off my plate and out and just done with it and and have people check it out finally and we we did as of maybe what four weeks ago shoot like the last of it. There was a little bit extra I didn't share that I had to shoot that I had to adjust my appearance for that I could not shoot with everything else, but it's over. It's already done. Really, we're wrapped 100%, yeah, so.

UNKNOWN: Oh nice see.

LOWRES: That'll be later this year and that'll be good to do. Alright, we gotta. We gotta wrap up the show here 'cause Hans has to get back to the call center job. What are you doing again these days, huh?

HANS: Yeah, that's same thing as always.

LOWRES: No, but why do you have?

HANS: Not many choices, see.

LOWRES: To answer so sad like it's not.

HANS: I'm not excited about it.

JAKE: You're going to be a *******.

UNKNOWN: I wish I.

HANS: Could just talk all day.

JAKE: Independent movie star soon. Man, that's that's.

LOWRES: Yeah, you gotta grow that hair back out for that answer. Alright, Jake, thank you so much for making time to chat about true crime and Ted K. It's always great having you on.

JAKE: Thanks, let's always fun.

LOWRES: Last time we had you on was Episode 101. This is 201, so yes, we've done 100 episodes in a year.

JAKE: Wow, fachmann.

LOWRES: Well, alright, hopefully we'll be on 301, yeah?

UNKNOWN: We shall.

JAKE: I've got so.

HANS: Lazy, I know I overlapped.

LOWRES: You you start. You I've got like a head start on me. By a couple of months to buy.

JAKE: Uh, is the docs. That's what I say. Too busy.

LOWRES: Yeah, well, you're you're up to way more fun **** we watch so many terrible movies on this show. Well, maybe fun isn't the word, but you know, interesting for sure.

UNKNOWN: Yeah yeah, yeah.

LOWRES: Alright, that has been movies for this week. Thank you for listening.